okay, i did some research and the max finger dexterity speed when it comes to typing is 18.75hz (yes, that's right-- 225wpm @ 5 char per word). this can actually go over 20hz for some string-virtuoso musicians, but for now i'll stick to the keyboard. so it's quite possible he performed that well without the use of a macro pad. in addition, we can apply this info to speed tetris. we're talking extreme skill acquisition here, but if someone can type words that fast, surely they could type that fast when dropping pieces. in theory, someone going a rate of 18.75hz in tetris given an optimal key per tetromino of around 2.75 would be capable of dropping 6.81 tetrominoes a second, or 409tpm.
Of course, that synch in speed can only be obtained if thinking is taken out of the question. Thoughts have to be registered before actions can be done and some things need more thoughts than others. Then there is also ones physical limitations. One example would be the optimal placement of key inputs. Typing is much more modular in form than tetris controls.
i don't see how typing words takes any less thinking than playing tetris. also, typing requires more keys than tetris. if anything, tetris is less physically demanding.
Pay more attention in psych classes you fool. First of all, you forgot about the Gestalt effect. Typing is easier because we perceive words as a whole, not as individual letters. And if you're typing non-random words, then even certain phrases can be parsed at a glance. Such as "at a glance". Nobody says "at a grange" or anything remotely similar. Remove the last word from a sentence and you can usually fill in the. Secondly, while the number of resonses/inputs will affect reaction time, you're sort of applying this out of context. There is not one correct response in Tetris. Typists are automatons, Tetris players less so. Are you sure you understood my unique application of Hold strategy we discussed a few days ago?
okay so maybe it is less thinking. although, i will say that chunking could work for tetris: "i recognize this part of the playfield-- many pieces can fit in it easily" or "i recognize these few pieces that are now coming, they go together very easily like this." while i'll revoke that typing-tetris comparison, the ability for a person to press keys that fast remains. and yeah, i know what you mean by holding. "playing forever" stacking could work also this way.
I was typing up a long post when ct just took the words right out of my mouth. I'll just say what he said in two sentences so my efforts don't feel like a total waste. Language is easier to master than tetris because there are abstract ways to memorize patterns. You have to approach tetris with raw brain power. P.S. We should make a new topic on this. We're going off on a tangent.
That's not quite the right use of chunking, which is a concept that deals with memory. The Gestalt effect is sort of similar but not equivalent... It's entirely perceptual. Anyhow, I get what you're saying there. I'm just not sure how much it can apply to Tetris. I think there might be something to my duplicate Hold strategy but it's really hard to tell these things. Just about everything else that would optimize play would occur naturally as skill increased.
StepMania is a PC rhythm game played on arrow keys. In the SM hardcore community, a song like "A" by DJ Amuro, with its 18-measure sixteenth note run at 191 BPM (that is, 12.73 Hz for 23 seconds), is considered "easy beginner shit" and "could AAA that in my sleep". In fact, some players have peaked well over 18.75 Hz when playing NVLM_ZK's ridiculously dense charts. The average vocabulary is 5,040 words. There are 5,040 permutations of seven tetrominoes. So it's not completely out of the question for somebody who has no life outside of Tetris to recognize a whole bag, decide how to stack its pieces, and play it automatically.
Tepples, you're not understanding what I've written. Take IIDX for example. When a player sees 2-3 notes in unison or close together, he does not parse this as 2 notes. That would be far too slow at high speed play. An experienced player will parse it as an interval or triad. Similar effects occur in DDR and every other music game. In Tetris, it doesn't matter if there are 7! permutations. The context of the screen greatly changes how you should act on each of these sets of pieces. You'll rarely play the same set the same way twice (with the exception of the opening 7 pieces). While context does exist in text to change the meaning of words, or in music to change the fingering you choose to play a section, these effects are minimal. Tetris demands you consider a set in an entirely fresh way every time. People read text, read music, read stepcharts. They do not read Tetris, because there is no one correct answer.
Kotetsu is illustrating exactly my point. Real players can't play like The New Tetris, which isn't anywhere near 3 pieces per second. And your silly playing forever thing also still has a whole crapload of context to guide where you put pieces. There is no one answer... You can't ignore context. Even if you can get away with something like that in some rare circumstances, you're not going to pull it off for 7 pieces. Not even close. The best you can do is treat 2 S pieces like: Code: [] [][][] [][][] [] And somesuch. But even then you can only do this at the mercy of context....
the kpt doesn't take into account time between keys, e.g time spent waiting for DAS to kick in, and the piece to move left. sometimes the player is waiting on the game, unless DAS is instant. And I'd like to think there is no limit, in the same way there is no limit to how fast someone can run 100 metres, they will always shave off miliseconds, and eventually smaller amounts of time. Also, I like to think speed will be limited by skill rather than input method. The keyboard is just a way to input commands into the game, once the keyboard is found to be limiting, a more direct, faster way of communicating with the game will occur. ( I know when I play, I see a piece, look for a hole/know where a hole is, and think, know how do i input that?) Quadraplegics can control a computer by thought, with diodes or something inserted into the brain (read this ages ago in a newspaper, it has never been succesfully demonstrated.) In the future, maybe there will just be the "what piece, what shape, where does it go" and the game will know Thoughtris anyone?. I mean, If tetris has a future in gaming, that's the direction i think it will go. Games that read your mind are a way off though.
Actually it has been demonstrated. I saw some dude play a Pac-Man clone (or was it Space Invaders?) with his mind. Search youtube, I'm sure it's there.
i remember they got a monkey to play some really basic "move the dot into the circle" game... first with a joystick (which is impressive on it's own) then with the joystick turned off and a bunch of brain wiring. always thought that was awesome.
I got all excited when i saw This. It's brand new on Digg, but the article dates from 12 October 2006, and it's a 14 year old with epilepsy playing space invaders. For his epilepsy, he has something installed in his brain or something, and plays space invaders.
The one I saw was a quadriplegic playing, I believe. Obviously, he didn't have to move anything, and controlled it using his mind exclusively. The controls looked a little slow and floaty though... But the researchers passed that up to lack of practice.
Can anybody give me a link to find the best shirase video, with a time around ~4min45, not 5min08... Thanks..
