The End of Prohibition

Thread in 'Discussion' started by Kitaru, 6 Dec 2010.

  1. orz


    ok so what if you have no wealth or assets how much are you going to spend
  2. Depends how much your house is worth :V
  3. orz


    that settles it then. im going to become a nomadic cloner
  4. orz


    one man going where ever the wind takes him, cloning with regard for no one
  5. SYN7HOR

    SYN7HOR Drama Queen

    Again, I don't live in the U.S., their corrupt corporate bullshit system does not apply here.

    The swedish justice/judicial system is very different. They couldn't possibly hurt me, atleast not through legal means.
  6. A questionable statement given the amount of crap that's gone down in Sweden over the Julian Assange case.

    Yeah, because it's not like any notable cases of copyright infringement have been held in Sweden (with US companies as the claimants), and have gone in favour of those seeking damages.

    Oh wait...

    Keep making your bogstandard clones and they probably won't bother if you're not in the US. But the moment anything you make starts getting meaningfully popular, they will come after you.
  7. ei


    An interesting question for everyone talking about clones: has anyone considered talking with TTC about making an "official fangame"? (or "clone" as we've been putting it?)

    Considering there is a rather large niche in single player Tetris left generally unfulfilled with TTC's games (as they have been focusing on the multiplayer experience), would it be outlandish to think we could possibly get official support for a TC-created Tetris game, focused on single-player (as not to stop on the toes of their official efforts of course), with a great deal of polish to make the game presentable?

    After all, what do we have to lose by asking about it? It's not as though TTC is unaware of the popular clones already, so even if they say no to the idea, we just end up in the same situation we already find ourselves in.

    Plus, I think having an "official" clone would help refocus the community a bit, especially after the clone ban caused a lot of dissent within an already small group of passionate players.

    Perhaps we should come up with a proposal for an "official fan game" project or something similar, and test the waters with an e-mail to Mr. Rogers and/or the TTC staff. It's entirely possible we'll be pleasantly surprised and end up with a green-light to develop a to-be-named TC game that strives for an excellent single-player experience. If nothing else, I think putting some effort into this is worth a try.

    Just my loose change on the matter before I leave for a holiday party.
  8. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    Interesting idea, but i think TTC is too proud to admit failure on the part of their Guideline with regards to single player play.

    Besides good single player tetris has already been done. TTC won't let us have it.

    But if anyone can come up with an alternate ruleset and rotation system, perhaps something that' snot a TGM clone can be made.

    Might as well try. worst thing that can happen is they say no...
  9. I actually brought it up in IRC yesterday while discussing PS3 Tetris, because there's definitely evidence that games can conform to the guideline and still be good (maybe not TGM good in terms of single-player, but definitely excellent for multiplayer at least), and that if someone made a polished, guideline-compatible Tetris game then they could potentially give it to TTC to have as a PC release.

    I'd say the main problem is that the sort of programmers we have here either wouldn't be interested in such a project and could potentially struggle to actually program it, because I'd imagine most wouldn't have much interest/experience at designing and creating a shiny family-friendly GUI
  10. SYN7HOR

    SYN7HOR Drama Queen

    Yes, they will come after me, but they can't win. That's my point. And I wouldn't have to pay a dime.

    Either way, I'm really not willing to get into programming again. It would take me months to even have a development environment going, and I just bought a new analog monstersynth (PEK) :) I would've gladly done it 10 years ago, and I'm sure there are lots of talented youngsters these days wanting a serious task.

    I would sure like to coordinate such a project though, and be the one for TTC to sue.
  11. I've got a single player Tetris clone on my computer right now that I programmed myself. It even has an "endless" mode, meaning that when blocks start locking near the top, it just scrolls up to more empty space. It was great for teaching myself TAP rules, when I was used to Ti. The wait time in between games was annoying. With this endless game, I can keep practicing digging.

    Clearing lines sends it back down, of course. I'm probably not releasing it, because I don't feel like dealing with any potential legal issues etc. no matter how small. I made it solely to train myself in TAP. I planned at one point to really clean it up and add some original modes, (I have a few that I haven't seen in other Tetris games, much like the endless thing it already has) but I have no drive to do so now. I won't be able to sell it, and I have other programming projects on my plate that I can sell.

    As far as I know developers have to pay (a lot) to get a license to make Tetris games. There is no reason they'd let us create a game for free if other people/companies are willing to pay (a lot) for that privelege.
  12. Man, I know my english sux but I always thought rosti was from england so I suppose you've got some problems understanding.
    You WOULD have to pay a dime. You would have to pay a LOT of cash for MANY years but would get refunded AT THE END of the lawsuit. If you can manage to spend tens of thousands of dollars for many years, that's not a problem for you, you can go in a lawsuit and fight for years (if you have the time).
    But if you don't have the money or the patience to wait for the lawsuit saying "okay, you didn't do anything wrong, they will have to repay you everything you spent", you'll make an arrangement with the big company suing you. That's how it works. And that's why big companies do not hesitate to sue people even when they know there's no chance they win.
  13. Infinite well height? That's actually quite a great idea! *claps lightly in appreciation*
  14. SYN7HOR

    SYN7HOR Drama Queen

    I heard you (or was it Rosti) the first time, and I responded. We're moving in circles and I see no point in continuing this discussion as I have no intentions of developing a clone.

    I'm content with TAP for the time being, I just think this whole situation is very bizarre.
  15. Here's a video (it plays upside down in winamp, so watch it with something else):

    [Video Removed] (~11 MB)

    Excuse my awful gameplay. Some of it is me not playing as well as I can, because you never see it scroll up if you play well enough. But the TAP part was totally fail.

    Quick Notes:
    1. It has hard drop, firm drop, and non locking softdrop.
    2. There's no ghost piece, because I intended this to be a 20G training tool. The 0G option is totally thrown together.
    3. I made a Tetris DX skin from the time period I was trying to max that game out.

    0:00-0:53 is just me making a high stack in 0G
    1:10-1:12 is the first soft drop showing the entire stack is maintained.
    Through 1:33 more of the same.
    1:33-1:48 I start with TAP rules but at Shirase 000 speed. I fail badly.
    1:48 though 2:24- Playing Shirase 000 speed with Ti rules.
    2:25-3:20 - Showing more neat endless stuff.

    It's actually pretty cool. The stack can get high enough that pieces falling at 20G don't hit the stack instantly. I actually have some really fun ideas for modes I haven't seen in other games, and background animations. I have a fantastic artist that may cooperate with that but... I have other projects to finish first. I haven't touched this in months. Still felt like showing it off. I may still release this as some point, but I wouldn't wait for it. Sorry for being a tease.

    </extreme off topic posting>
    Last edited: 28 Apr 2011
  16. Let me get this straight. TTC/Sega/Akira made TGM4, then decided after it was nearly ready for release that they would cancel it's the cool thing to do? There's no sound reason given?

    Mihara, meanwhile, has been pooping all over our faces for liking the games his company makes SO MUCH that some of us spent our own time and energy making our own versions since there's no way to legally play actual TGM outside of Japan.

    ...the fuck.

    I can understand not wanting people to clone your game, but I think it's pretty obvious that those clones would shut down the day an offical TGM was released for PC or console/handheld. If he wants to project his frustration onto someone, it should be whoever's standing in the way of getting those games released, not the fans. Bad form, Mihara.

    While THAT'S going on, TC has a ban on clones/discussion, actually thinking that would change anything? I don't really come here that often (infrequently enough to completely miss the ban), but I imagine you lost some users with this? How does this reflect on the community?

    As for TTC, I get that Tetris is a pretty huge casual game, but that doesn't mean they should completely block TGM gameplay. Just put something in the guidelines for optionally including some kind of hard mode that follows the TGM standards. I didn't see any problems when Nintendo introduced all those crazy Nintendo-themed variants in TDS, so what's the REAL hold up here?

    Just my two cents. I tell my friends about TGM and how ridiculous (in the good way) it is all the time, but I don't have a good way to actually play it with them, which is a real shame.
  17. Ugh, I had this same idea at one point, though mine would involve popping up garbage lines for you to dig through if you were at the bottom (sort of an "endless" mode.)

    Things that would help are smoother animations for stack movement, and splitting the bottom/top halves of the screen when a piece is below the bottom of the top area, and some form of ruler on the side to help you keep track of where you are (doubly so with the split stack).
  18. I assume you mean in between pieces. I gave a lot of thought to this, but decided against it. Situation: You lock a piece 1,000 rows below current highest block in the middle. ARE is 10 frames. the game has to scroll up 100 rows each frame, which isn't really smooth. And even that fast doesn't leave you time to recall what the top of the stack looks like. That's an extreme case, but smaller distances with less ARE face similar problems. As for falling, I can't make it much smoother either. 20G requires the game to scroll 20 rows a frame, or the scrolling falls behind.

    That solves the above problem of not seeing the top of the stack in time, though. Something like how Toejam and Earl splits the screen when the players get far apart? (4:03 a split occurs) One half could always show the top.

    I do plan on adding a way to tell how high you are in the stack, among other stats, and splitting is a good idea. I may make an option, but I'm not sure which should be the default. Both are sort of jarring. Thanks for the input!

    Edit: Perhaps a (topic) split is in order.
    Last edited: 6 Jan 2011
  19. orz


    guess this worked out well huh lol
  20. heh *sips Fanta Grape* :fantagrape:

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