TGM4 Announced^W Cancelled^W Revived!!

Thread in 'Discussion' started by colour_thief, 20 Aug 2009.

  1. Re: TGM4 Announced!!

    lol what

    it has master, hardkore and two modes no one will play, how is this game in any way different than the last two
  2. Muf


    Re: TGM4 Announced!!

    The last two games only have one mode nobody plays.
  3. Re: TGM4 Announced!!

    normal/tgm+ and easy/sakura
  4. Muf


    Re: TGM4 Announced!!

    I like your definition of "nobody".
  5. Re: TGM4 Announced!!

    eh it has like three or four truly interested players

    anyways a big-bravo mode is way more interesting than any beginner/sega spinoff-rehash mode presented before
  6. Re: TGM4 Announced!!

    It looks like Mihara found love !!
  7. Re: TGM4 Announced!!

    Meh, the flowery backgrounds have grown on me a little. It's a bit odd, but it at least looks nice/not ugly.
  8. Re: TGM4 Announced!!

    I'm excited about Konoha, and we know nothing about Kamui. I think it's a little premature to get depressed.

    I am, however, upset at the apparent lack of Doubles. Though I guess there's still time.
  9. Re: TGM4 Announced!!

    It looks to me like there's four modes, one for each season. I wouldn't get my hopes up about a doubles mode, unless it's a code like Big used to be.
  10. Re: TGM4 Announced!!

    Doubles used to be a code in TGM2 pre-Plus, so I guess it is a possibility.
  11. Ai


    Re: TGM4 Announced!!


    Or view it here!

    Starts with Konoha mode. I'll comment after I've completely seen it.


    It's a taste of Konoha only. The music in the first 1000 levels is generic eroge/bishoujo stuff. Nothing really special. After level 1000 we get more familiar TGM background music which is good. The backgrounds change every 100 levels like usual and are actually very nice to look at. Very soothing to the eyes. I especially like the backgrounds after level 500, 700, 1000 and 1200.

    Every row of blocks increases the level counter by 1 and every piece adds 1 level too. Clearing 1 line adds 2 levels to the level counter, 2 adds 4, 3 adds 6 and a Tetris 12. A line clear is needed to advance at level x99. There's a 3 minute time limit for this mode. Every time you get a Bravo you get 10 seconds bonus added. A fox appears when there is a Bravo opportunity. When you fail to get a Brovo the fox falls down and a weird noise is heard.

    After level 1000 no time bonus is added when you get an All Clear. You start with the shadowy pattern of a girl in the background of the playfield. A Bravo shows the girl partially and another one will reveal the girl. The following Bravo will then get you the pattern of the next girl. The girls are standard bishoujo material. Nothing outrageous (unfortunately). The mode probably consiststs of 1300 levels of play and maybe a credit roll afterwards.

    The guy playing got 17 Bravos (the current amount is shown on screen when you get one) in about 6 minutes of play and failed to gather enough time to reach the end. Bottom line is that even with only 5 pieces it isn't really that easy to get a lot of Bravos. It would have been too hard to play for too long without toping out with S and Z pieces. Speed looks manageable. All in all interesting enough for me. ^^
    Last edited: 18 Nov 2009
  12. Re: TGM4 Announced!!

    Mihara also posted it on Youtube:

    The music is entirely from Sakura mode of TGM3 by the way. So it's probably still a placeholder.

    The foxes appear near the level counter. They are accompanied by a sound effect. It's usually the Ready Go's Go sound, and it sounds when either the Next piece or Hold piece can bravo. That's actually not too too useful... I'd hope players could figure that much out for themselves... It will also sound the medal sound if 2 consecutive (or more?) line clears can bravo. But it is direct line clear bravoing, which is a small subset of bravo potential.

    I've also noticed "Back to Back" is announced.
    Last edited: 18 Nov 2009
  13. Re: TGM4 Announced!!

    SAKURA MUSIC :sowsuser:

    The animated backgrounds are pretty swish.

    The girl pictures aren't even that risque. I am disappoint.
  14. Ai


    Re: TGM4 Announced!!

    Can someone link to a good quality Ti Sakura video. Preferably the whole thing. Thanks! ^^

    I've noticed that only 1 situation presents itself for a Bravo (just after level 791) that wasn't successfully used. In that case the Hold Piece and the Next Piece alone can't be used for a Bravo. The first piece in the Next Piece que is necessary in that situation.

    There is a 4-step combo ending with a Bravo at level 419 without medal sound. The medal sound is heard at level 513. This happens when a triple followed by a tetris cause a Bravo to occur. Maybe the medal sound is heard when there's at least a 2-step combo resulting in a Bravo without counting the singles. Or maybe the medal system isn't completely implemented yet and it's something else.

    The time bonus isn't always 10 seconds it seems. A combo resulting in a Bravo gives 15 seconds (the maximum in the video). And near the end you get less than 10 seconds for a Bravo.
  15. Re: TGM4 Announced!!

    This thread needs more pictures! :D

    Here are the 2 times the medal sound was played. I think It's too much of a coincidence that it sounded twice during the ARE of a 2-piece bravo and also the fox appeared. I think it's very safe to assume it's part of the bravo detection.


    It only sounded twice! And there were many many opportunities. Most bravos the player got included 2 consecutive line clears. I'm very curious as to the algorithm it's using to find these. Bravo searching is an interesting variation on an "exact cover problem" similar to the original pentominoes puzzle where you had to fit the pentominoes into a rectangle. Such problems are efficiently solved using Knuth's Algorithm X, though the algorithm would require some modification to handle Tetris' line clears. Even if they were using some other solution, I can't think of anything that would be so limited as to miss all the other chances to see bravo potential.

    That said, the 2 times the medal sound did appear have something in common. The lines are cleared from top to bottom and each piece is wholly cleared by the line clear. If I had to guess, I'd say they have some sort of memoized list of bravo situations and have only implemented certain very basic cases.


    Here's a decently complicated bravo that the player missed. I was proud of seeing it in realtime as I watched the video. I would understand if the game never recognised something this complicated, but I think it should at least warn the player of 2-piece bravos.

  16. Ai


    Re: TGM4 Announced!!

    Bravo detection under certain circumstances is the most plausible explanation for the medal sounds. Only in the 2 cases you described did the fox appear way in advance as opposed to just before the Bravo. Maybe Hold makes more advanced AC detection difficult?
  17. Re: TGM4 Announced!!

    I was very sceptical, but I have to say that the backgrounds look absolutely beautiful.
  18. Re: TGM4 Announced!!

    Ok, I think I've figured out what it's doing. I believe they have memoized all 34 1-piece bravos:

    Next, with negligible extra work, they can use this to find n-piece bravos of a certain form:

    The game checks, given the next and hold piece, if it's possible to "sub-bravo" the top. If it is possible, it then continues like this and if a complete bravo is reached it deems it possible and sounds the fox. For bravos of this form, it's conceivable the game can even detect them 3 or more pieces in advance. But the piece order has to come right... See my first example where the reverse piece order, while bravoable, is not detectable with this algorithm. The game won't detect it if the piece order requires the completion of a lower bravo before an upper bravo. This is consistent with the video:

    No fox!

    I think they used this algorithm because there's no mucking about with "can this piece move to this hypothetical location". If the top is sub-bravoable, then by definition the piece can reach its destination. They've basically got a perfect 1-piece bravo predictor, and with little extra work, turned it into a (very basic) multi-piece bravo predictor. A more robust bravo predictor would actually be a substantial programming challenge, considering that they can't risk the bravo search slowing the game down.

    I kind of hope they improve it before release, but on the plus side as it is the medal sound gives you a lot of information. If the player had realised that the medal sound meant "you can sub-bravo the top!" he would probably have spammed the hold button at this missed bravo opportunity:

    Last edited: 18 Nov 2009
  19. K


    Re: TGM4 Announced!!

    <[][][][]>look's like a desesperate attempt from Mihara to get a definitly "japanese only" game...([​IMG])


    i will surely never play this mode.
  20. orz


    Re: TGM4 Announced!!

    i really am not excited for this game anymore

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