[Split] Step reset and entry reset

Thread in 'Discussion' started by DIGITAL, 23 Aug 2008.


    DIGITAL Unregistered

    Yeah, sounds like it.
  2. Edo

    Edo a.k.a. FSY

    Actually, it just turns off move reset; it then defaults to step reset. This would be ideal if it were not for the fact that SRS is allowed infinite floor kicks, which also reset the lock delay.
  3. jujube

    jujube Unregistered

    floor kicks which of course are needed because of the basic rotations [​IMG] on a flat surface with no floor kicks you couldn't rotate J or L from spawning orientation with SRS.

    edit: oh yeah, I, S, T, and Z too. don't know what i was thinking.
  4. tepples

    tepples Lockjaw developer

    So I take it there isn't an option in Heboris to limit SRS to 1 floor kick per piece like in Ti-ARS.
  5. jujube

    jujube Unregistered

    the only thing i see which is remotely close is "enable wallkick" on or off.

    edit: i just tried Ti-world 20G with "enable wallkick" off and it wasn't very playable.
  6. DeHackEd

    DeHackEd green Gm

    Yeah, sure sign me up.

    All modes, ARS.
  7. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    SRS rquires move reset to be playble. i suggest ti-world's limited move reset rules, as there really isn't a better option.
  8. No it doesn't.

    DIGITAL Unregistered

    Yeah, I don't think any competent SRS player that knows their finesse would require move reset. Move reset is what makes Shirase so much easier with World. It's easier not in the sense that the player can rotate ridiculously to reset lock delay for survival, but that by just playing with regular finesse, the player has the advantage of an extended lock delay.
  10. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    A fast auto-shift goes a long way towards removing the playability troubels with step reset under SRS.

    bUt then we have the issue of nearly everypiece floorkicking, whihc causes a reset ANYWAY under step reset.
  11. Muf


    It does under move reset too. At least under step reset, DAS doesn't reset lock delay.
  12. Amnesia

    Amnesia Piece of Cake

    Ah..? [​IMG]

    Ah. [​IMG]
  13. "bUt then we have the issue of nearly everypiece floorkicking, whihc causes a reset ANYWAY under step reset."

    There's three ways that I know to make lock delay finite using SRS kicks in 20G.
    1. Entry reset
    2. Step delay, but restrict the number of floor kicks
    3. Step delay, but keep track of the lowest row the piece has fallen and only reset lock delay when a piece falls below its lowest fallen point.
    Number three isn't finite in low gravity since I know of at least one floorkick you can do with I-tetromino without landing.

    Entry reset is a simpler and better step delay and is by far the best option for any rotation system.

    DIGITAL Unregistered

    Definitely the most elegant solution.

    ARS players will lose whatever tiny advantage they had with step reset, which isn't really enough to make a noticeable difference if you stack flat (Ti style). To be honest, step reset is pretty pointless where TGM is heading (perhaps even from the beginning) and should be scrapped in the next iteration of the series for entry reset.

    SRS players will lose the huge advantage they had, whether it's move or step reset. Competent players will not abuse lock delay reset during multiplayer even if it's available. Incompetent players that will abuse such features would fail regardless of what rotation system they are using. There's no reason to make it easier for the SRS crowd because the ARS crowd is not getting any slack either.
  15. What the crap guys? Entry reset is simple, but not elegant. It's so artificial, untactile, and boring. You'll never see it in TGM... TGM is all about visceral, mechanical, gameplay. You won't see it for the same reasons you won't see instant DAS, 180 rotations, or crazy ass wallkicks.

    DIGITAL Unregistered

    You're not going to tell me that ARS's wallkicks are perfectly intuitive as well are you? SRS does have it's extreme problems but it also has some things that ARS could use. Contrary to popular belief, some diagonal wallkicks are not bad and are more intuitive than people think.

    I dont see how step reset is more intuitive than entry reset. Perhaps it's most useful to those who abuse it by using non-optimal finesse or extreme pyramid stacking? A static lock delay is much more predictable (like ARS's wallkicks), which makes it intuitive, imo.

    As for instant DAS and 180 degree rotations, who's to say those are unintuitive? This is an area where we have to be careful of bias. Perhaps it seems unintuitive to you because you're used to different gameplay mechanics? Would you say firm drop is unintuitive because it lands instantly?
  17. jujube

    jujube Unregistered

    woot, nice heated debate [​IMG]
    don't want to interrupt you guys, but something must be addressed. this "step reset" + SRS shit isn't going to work. i put step reset in quotes because it doesn't work like that unless the rotation system was designed for it.

    my hebo mini replay:

    i could make another replay of a situation where stepping down does not cause a reset, but i think this infinite rotation example is effective enough.

    there's no way in hell i'm playing 20G SRS with step reset [​IMG] doesn't work.

    edit: limiting the floorkicks (if that's possible) isn't going to fix the situation where rotating a piece into a hole isn't resetting the lock delay.
  18. "Entry reset is simple, but not elegant. It's so artificial, untactile, and boring."

    How is step reset less boring? It may be tactile, but then again it also encourages the so called "anti-finesse."Contrary to what you say, step reset is more artificial. It adds a condition. Entry reset is just what it is and that's all there is to it. Entry reset is more intuitive, too. From the very first game, what comes to people's mind when they play Tetris is "the blocks fall faster and faster, so I have to move faster and faster." Entry reset does exactly that and nothing less.

    If anything, step reset is more like crazy ass wall kicks than entry reset (goes out of its way to make things easier).
  19. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    For entry reset to even be close to playable, it has to be such a long delay it might as well BE step reset.

    I do NOT want pieces sticking often during 1G auto-shift. If we make it long enough to ensure this doesn't happen, we might as well be using step reset.

    for somene who knows how to bash the rotate button, step reset under SRS is ffectively move reset. That's the mai issue. So we might as well let them have their move reset. stalling is a loosing tactic in multiplayer anyway, as long as it's not infinite stalling.

    That's why i voted for limited move reset for SRS. ARS is designed from the ground up for step reset. Only two peices can floorkick at all, and they only get to floorkick once.

    Many of the I wallkicks in SRS are quite intuitive (the rotate on the end bit) On the other hand,the t-spin triple is about as unintuitive as you can get. And the "non-rotation" of S and Z lieing flat onground at times is even less intuitive.
  20. tepples

    tepples Lockjaw developer

    I seem to remember having tested Kirby's Avalanche for Super NES and finding that it uses entry reset. Should I go test Puyo Pop Fever for GameCube?

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