Speed curve zero is the devil

Thread in 'Strategy' started by jujube, 21 Mar 2007.

  1. jujube

    jujube Unregistered

    I've noticed a lot of lockjaw players are using speed curve zero now. I hate to take a stand against so many people, but isn't it WAY too easy? Sure lockjaw is a speed game, and people are putting up some amazing times, but it takes some of the challenge out of the game. I don't know if I could ever make 1 line per second playing 20g rhythm but I would sure as hell like to try. After playing speed curve zero for a couple days I went back to 20g and I was a complete mess. It's a completely different game, where you have to use stacking strategy for optimal maneuverability and it isn't good enough to rotate every piece first then move it to the column you want.

    Please keep making videos regardless of what speed curve you're playing on because I love to watch them, but I would also love to see a few people playing 20g. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE [​IMG]

    PS no, I'm not bitter about being beaten by 22 seconds in 40 lines [​IMG] and I still think it is amazing to see such low times.
  2. It's all a difference between two different philosophies, free speed and forced speed.
  3. Cubicz

    Cubicz Unregistered

    I wouldn't say Lockjaw is a speed game, it can near perfectly emulate some TGM modes game-play wise, as an example of its versatility. But you're right, there certainly is a shift in focus, but it's not a bad thing. like needle says, it's just different philosophy of playing.
  4. mat


    i like to switch it up: TAP for my 20g and actual tetris strategy, 40 line zero for pure speed drilling. i think both do complement each other, although ultimately master mode is a much more strategic, choice drive game.
  5. K


    please forgive my ignorance but what is "speed curve Zero" on LockJaw ? no gravity ? [​IMG]
  6. no gravity.
  7. "It's all a difference between two different philosophies, free speed and forced speed."

    0g and 20g have nothing to do with "forced speed." 0g rhythm proves this. forced speed has to do with lock delay.

    for me, 0g and 20g are just two different ways of playing the game. they require seperate techniques. not really that one's more difficult than the other--they're just different. although >= 0g unarguably feels more instinctive. despite all that, it's like apples and oranges.
  8. jujube: did you have 0G Rhythm in mind when you said zero?
  9. jujube

    jujube Unregistered

    no, actually Needle i haven't played 0g rhythm, i was only referring to 0g. i'm assuming that 0g rhythm has piece lock similar to 20g rhythm, which would make it a bit more challenging. the issue i still see with that is there is nothing to block a piece from moving anywhere you want to put it, regardless of the shape of your stack. with that being possible, playing forever is also possible.

    don't get me wrong though, i still respect anyone who can play at high speeds regardless of the speed curve or any other option. i'm just wondering how far things will go in the future of tetris (not that lockjaw is affiliated with the tetris company) to cater to speed play while neglecting other challenges. i'll be honest, i'm using 9 keys including rotate left twice, far left, and far right. would anyone consider that to be too easy?
  10. tepples

    tepples Lockjaw developer

    The point is that with any sort of lock delay, there isn't much of a stacking-strategy difference between 0G and 1G. It takes about 100 pieces and change to clear 40 lines. If you drop 105 pieces in Exponential, you're only getting up to 1/60G * (259/256)^105 = 1/17G. To get to 1G takes log(60)/log(259/256) = 351 tetrominoes. How many tetrominoes do you drop in a 3-minute game?
  11. jujube

    jujube Unregistered

    very true tepples. the only difference as far as i can tell between 0g and 1g is that you can stack all the way to the top with 0g, bringing your eyes a little closer to the previews. that is, unless of course someone has "next above shadow" turned on. i've tried that a little and it seems a bit awkward to me. but you're right, there isn't much of a difference between 0g and 1g. i'm just wondering why more people don't play 20g in lockjaw. while their tpm may drop a little i think it's worth it for the challenge, and it makes for a better replay if the viewer can appreciate the increased difficulty.
  12. "while their tpm may drop a little i think it's worth it for the challenge"

    optimally, tpm should increase since 20g forces less keys per tetromino.
  13. jujube

    jujube Unregistered

    (rot=SRS, lock=300 ms Move reset, rnd=7-piece Bag, spin=3-corner T, speed=Rhythm)

    (grav=Naive, drop=None, are=0 ms, das=16 ms 1G (60 Hz), shadow=None, next=3 pieces)

    i'm getting under 2 kpt with these settings. still a little sloppy but getting better, and the potential for high tpm is good as i can lower the lock delay as i improve. the sideways movement is super smooth tepples, and it's a lot of fun [​IMG]
  14. I just wanted to add that I fully approve of jujube's 0G criticism and interest in 20G. They definitely both have their place.

    But yeah, just want to say respect++;

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