Second Place Syndrome

Thread in 'Strategy' started by Rosti LFC, 13 Jun 2006.

  1. Ive been on a long run of 4-player matches now and seem to have trouble winning. Its not that i'm not very good, but I just seem to come second every time. I played against cosmonaut and usually two other 6500-7500 players. After about ten games I'd come 3rd once, 2nd eight times and won one.

    I didn't think much of this until I played three more people all between 6900 and 7300. After losing the first match I then came second (and occasionally third) every game for the next 12 games or so.

    Anyoneelse have this problem or have any ideas why I do? Is it bad luck, coincidence or do I must I generally lack the skill or 'killer technique' for one on ones?
  2. cosmonaut

    cosmonaut Unregistered

    i think the problem is that in some of those games you were playing against me, and i have a first place syndrome [​IMG]

    DIGITAL Unregistered

    Yes, I would say to improve on your 2-player matches. In general, what tactics do you utilize?
  4. tepples

    tepples Lockjaw developer

    You must be really ****ing lucky. For me, the following is a good day:

    1. 86420
    2. 86420
    3. Vs. cosmonaut: Last place, and a player dropped
    4. 86420
    5. 86420
    6. 86420
    7. Vs. cosmonaut: Last place, and a player dropped
    8. 86420
    9. 3 games against weak (sub-5500) players, and a player dropped
    10. 5 games, all 3rd and 4th place, and 71002
    11. 86420
    12. Vs. cosmonaut: 3rd place, and a player dropped
    13. 86420
    14. 86420
    15. 2 games, 2nd 3rd 2nd, 1st, and a player dropped
    How can I learn how to play in effectively in worldwide standard 4 player mode?
    • How do I overcome 86420 syndrome? On most days, I get disconnected with error 86420 ten times in a row and give up. How many times are players expected to try again? Does anybody else see the gray [?] bars repeatedly leaving the matchmaking screen? Am I the only member of forums who has upwards of an 80% failure rate when trying to connect to worldwide standard 4-player? I'm afraid to post this on because standard operating procedure there is to blame 86420 errors on the reporter's own router.
    • How can I tell when the game has started without staring at the screen?
    • Worldwide standard 4-player matches more often than not involve players whose ratings are over 2000 points apart. Is this normal?
    • How can I avoid misdrops under fire (fast drop) and lightning (no rotation) at the same time? Do you think even the players in the Shirase videos could adapt to even 60ppm under no rotation?
    • How do I watch my own field and other players' fields so that I know when to press the X Button?
    • Why do I often go several games without getting one Starman item?
    • How can I keep up my momentum in the face of last place finishes, disconnects, and 86420?
    If I normally play worldwide standard around 7050 or so, am I supposed to fall 500 points in one day under my best effort?

    It may be that as in the film WarGames, the only winning move is not to play. Will I be kicked off the forum as a l4m3 n00b if I choose to specialize exclusively in standard 2 player matches? SRSly?
  5. cosmonaut

    cosmonaut Unregistered

    i would have to disagree with that.

    4 player games and 2 player games are entirely different entities. 2 player games are about speed and favorable piece positioning.

    4 player is much more about strategic defense and rating targeting. it's VERY true that the end of the 4 person game IS a 2 person match but you can spend a lot of time setting yourself up for that if you pay a bit of attention to the other player's screens. there's no sense wasting garbage on a player that is struggling ... with a few quick glances you can use your tetrises more strategically and target the stronger of the remaining 2 (when there are 3 of you left). i think that's essential.
  6. Nah, items are kind of lame and not to be taken seriously. 4 Player feels like a party game not a real match. I rarely indulge myself in it.
  7. cosmonaut

    cosmonaut Unregistered

    hey tepples, saw you in all of those games.

    i get a lot of the 806420 or whatever. i spend A LOT OF TIME waiting for games. sometimes i forget i'm waiting and i come back to a lost game [​IMG]. but i don't know what the grey screen is about.......

    as a general rule i don't spend much time watching other players' screens. don't worry about targeting items because it's not important (in fact i dont' think you actually target any item, they affect all the players), so press the x button as soon as you feel like it. as far as targeting garbage... DONT target garbage with 4 players in the game. The only time you want to is with 3 players in the game, you waste too much time trying to target garbage when there are 4 players. It's a good idea to glance to see who you're dropping your garbage on when you do slam a tetris (and the pause when it clears the lines is kind of nice for that).
  8. Sully

    Sully Unregistered

    Tepples- I assume you have a wireless router? Perhaps you should try the Niontendo USB WiFi connector and see if your connection is any more consistent (via the connector instead of the router). If it is, it would be well worth the money.

    X-Perts is having connection problems with his wireless router and he's going to try the USB connector.
  9. tepples

    tepples Lockjaw developer

    I don't have $600 for a new computer to run the Microsoft Windows XP operating system, which the Nintendo USB dongle requires. I'm typing this on a 5.5 year old Dell computer with a Pentium III 0.866 GHz CPU, 128 MB of RAM, and Windows 2000 University Edition.

    If I had $600 to spend on a video game system, it would be a Wii, extra controllers, and a half dozen games, not a new PC to act as a router for my DS.

    I'm almost thinking the 86420 is from a lack of players rather than from a bad router.
  10. baconcow

    baconcow Unregistered

    I played against Cosmonaut today and I am impressed by his wins (and hence patience) as well as his skill in 4-player.
  11. baconcow

    baconcow Unregistered

    I don't know if this is allowed here, so if it is not, I will delete it. But I have an extra Nintendo WIFI dongle that I won in the DOSE Tetris contest (along with a DS and Tetris). If you live in Canada by any chance I can get you it for a decent price.
  12. I find I have to wait quite a while for players. Sometimes i'll go 10 minutes without even a grey box. Players disappear a lot for me as well. Sometimes i get 3 players and then all of their grey boxes go (happens a lot on Mario Kart as well). It seems if one out of the three disconnects, you lose the connection with all of them.

    Now the world cup is on, I just have my TV on while playing online and watch it while i'm waiting for players. Occasionally this backfires and i start playing people without realising, but generally it makes waiting far less boring.

    On ratings of players, the Wifi seems to search for players with ratings around yours, but uses any old players if it can't find any. About a quarter of the people I play are over 6750. Considering this is a low percentage of players there must be some system in place. After all, playing people with massive skill differences isn't fun for anyone - losing is never fun and beating someone 2000+ points lower than you is more relieving than satisfying
  13. Router problems are funny, my router me points when I get disconnected.

    ....With that said I don't play on 4 player mode. I did soon after buying the game and then I realized that without a seperate rating I was essentially playing a gamble. NOT GOOD
  14. cosmonaut

    cosmonaut Unregistered

    by the way... i have no idea how people get paired up for games.

    i've sat in the same room with someone waiting for 4 player games and only once in 20 games did we end up in the same game. but yesterday, in 4 or 5 different games Rosti ended up as one of my 3 opponents... weird.
  15. cosmonaut

    cosmonaut Unregistered

    ah, just played *&%sen (japanese symbols first) and beat him, WHAT A NIIIICCCEE feeling. he was at 8060.
  16. Josh

    Josh Unregistered

    I generally don't really care about my rating, so long as I'm having fun. Ratings are not that important to me. That's why I play 4 player A LOT. It's just the rush of the whole thing, the strategy, and the multiple opponents that make it worth while. If my rating goes up, it's a bonus I guess. But if my rating goes down, it doesn't bother me. Ratings mean nothing if you still have the skills to beat someone higher than you. Hell, I even let my friends play Wi-Fi when I'm not. I won't get mad at them for giving me a bad rating. It will go up again anyway.
  17. tepples

    tepples Lockjaw developer

    There's no "rush" when a player quits after the first round and I'm stuck on 86420 for ten minutes.
  18. cosmonaut

    cosmonaut Unregistered

    if rating doesn't matter to you.... you must be one of those "size doesn't matter" guys.... eh?! [​IMG]
  19. Josh

    Josh Unregistered

    No... [​IMG] . I guess I just don't care because it's not like my life depends on having a high rating or anything. I just play to have fun. Come on, I know there's at least SOMEBODY else out there who also doesn't care about rating. [​IMG]

    Wow, that sucks. I've never experienced 86420 before.
  20. Though I care about mine, i do think the rating are a bit pointless, along with the rank. Do i really become worse than 3000 people by losing one game againts people in the 5000s on 4-player? I think not

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