Sanwa button and Joystick bounce

Thread in 'Hardware' started by Marq, 6 Feb 2015.

  1. Hey guys, I've been playing a lot of TGM1 on MAME

    and I swear to god when I hit A B or C it will double tap it sometimes or as I'm trying to rotate a piece before the lock delay it will either not do it at all or seem to wait till the last possible second to do the input.

    Is this an issue with my sanwa buttons or is this the fabled mame input lag?

    anyone else having issues like this? it almost always happens in the middle of a real good game too!
     
    Last edited: 6 Feb 2015
  2. That doesn't seem like either of those to be honest. Without playing on your setup I guess it's hard for me to really give you much more specific advice. With the Sanwa buttons, keep in mind that even the lightest touch will trigger them so it's entirely possible you're accidentally double tapping them just by resting your fingers on the button. MAME input lag is a static thing; it doesn't intermittently cause problems. As for the joystick bounceback, new JLFs will do that pretty badly. Just don't be afraid to be aggressive; over time you'll find that it's not so much of an issue as the switches and spring break in a little.
     
    Marq likes this.
  3. Does the same thing happen if you play on keyboard?

    Joystick bounceback is definitely an issue on Sanwa JLFs, but I'd be incredibly surprised to see Sanwa buttons double-register - it's not something I've ever seen myself and I don't really understand how it would happen with the way they're designed. The trigger point is *incredibly* sensitive, and I'll frequently accidentally press C just because my finger is resting slightly on the button rather than above it, but to have it sit at a point where it re-triggers the button and then only does so once (rather than it hovering on the input threshold and vibrating on and off repeatedly) seems pretty unlikely.

    It doesn't sound like input lag either to be honest. MAME input lag isn't great, but if you're using shmupmame then it's both consistent and also bad enough that I'd expect anyone to ever notice or struggle with unless they were switching between MAME and the real thing fairly regularly (or had been playing for years).
     
    Marq likes this.
  4. I've considered the fact that my finger has also been grazing the C button and I'm sure it's been the case more than once, I just played a game of TGM1 and it did it about 10 times in a row I was tapping lightly because I was at work and didn't want anyone to get annoyed. I guess I can confirm by just holding the button for the duration of the piece and if it keeps happening, I'll try switching the switch for another switch (I just wanted to say switch 3 times there)
     
  5. I'm also curious to why you've assumed this must be either the fault of Sanwa's button or MAME. Does it not do it for other games, or other things you use the stick with? Could easily be that something else is going on between the button and the game - either in the joystick PCB or maybe a loose soldering connection or a faulty hardware driver or something. I'd expect doing at least some troubleshooting with an input test screen would go a long way to ruling some things out.

    Also, once the button is held it will only generate one input within TGM - it shouldn't rotate a second time until it's released and repressed.
     
  6. Turns out it's registering another tap sometimes when I'm releasing the A button, I'll take a better look at my setup when I'm not at work.
     
  7. Hmm, could well be there's a fault with the individual button then - or some debris causing a problem. It's not something I've ever seen with a Sanwa button before, but I wouldn't entirely rule it out if you've just got a bit of a dodgy one.
     
  8. I'll do some more testing, I'm sure it's a personal issue, I'm using an I-Pac which I would assume should work fine. I just don't play that many games that make this double tap issue as evident as tgm does
     
  9. I've never had that happen with Sanwa buttons, though it's pretty common for me to accidentally touch a rotation button because my finger is grazing it... They are just that sensitive
     
  10. Muf

    Muf

    dat shmup terminology
     
  11. It makes my combo go up faster
     
  12. It could be a wiring issue. I've run into this before with my own handiwork when the quick disconnect to the button was loose -- the movement of the case while playing (either operating the joystick or striking the buttons, or it shifting on my lap) would cause the connection to briefly drop and then re-register. I tightened up my quick disconnects (I had the wrong size for the particular switch and had used pliers to narrow/tighten things up to grip the terminal, lol) and that resolved the issue.
     
    Marq likes this.
  13. I think that was it Kitaru I touched up the ground solder on my A button and it seems alright so far
     
    Kitaru likes this.
  14. It's actually still doing it, but less, I feel like it's missing B now, and I get about 500 triple taps instead of double taps per game, but I think that's just me
     
  15. Anyone ever tried to pull out the spring of a Sanwa stick and push it around to wear it down by force?

    My new cabinet apparently has a very fresh Sanwa stick, cause I'm getting bounce-back like mad - something that hasn't happened on my old cab in ages, and it's driving me crazy.
     
  16. Bump...

    Do people still read these forums?
     
  17. Yup. some do.

    My only advice is to leave it alone.
    Play with it and wear it down naturally.
    any changes in the stick will happen gradually over time and both you and the stick will grow together and learn from each other.

    You always want to be able to walk up to any cab, learn the stick in a few games and get back to your normal level of play. Playing with a modified stick will mess this up for you.
     
    Kitaru likes this.
  18. You'd think so, right. But I have tons of experience playing with JLFs, and I've never experienced bounceback like this. It almost makes me think they replaced the springs, but I think it's likely they just put brand new sticks into the cab before they shipped it out.
     
  19. I would experiment with the stick and put one of your own out springs in there.

    The problem with taking the spring out to wear it down is the inability to insure any sort of uniformity in the wear down of the spring.
     
    Kitaru likes this.
  20. Thanks for the warning. I'll try just putting the springs from my old cab in the new one and vice versa :)
     
    Kitaru likes this.

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