Potential new TGM codename TGM3Ω

Thread in 'Discussion' started by Rosti LFC, 22 Mar 2015.

  1. I wouldn't be surprised if Ubisoft were open for a TGM port - They'll do anything for easy money (which a nearly textless port of a completed game that is already based on PC hardware should be), and they are one of the only video game giants that still cares about niche markets (just look at Child of Light, etc.) and probably well aware of the enthusiastic following TGM has.
    I'd be more surprised if Arika suddenly decided to work with foreign publishers. :p
    Last edited: 24 Mar 2015
  2. People tend to forget that TAP actually has a "Normal" mode, that's pretty manageable to anyone with just a little bit of Tetris experience :)
    I guess there's a bit of a gap between Normal and Master for intermediates though, but personally I still enjoy Master a lot even though it keeps spanking my ass. I think there's a bigger market for that than most people tend to assume, especially if online leaderboards are introduced, meaning you aren't competing with the game any longer, but with your friends about who can get the furthest.
  3. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    i'm trying to translate the TGM video guidelines at http://www.arika.co.jp/tgm_g.html

    Naturally i'm bad at this (machine translation to the rescue), but it pretty much seems to say.

    1) Only use official licensed products. Currently this means arcade boards only. Also state that they are licensed.
    2) identify the game. (TGM, TAP, TGM3, etc.)
    3) use hashtag #tgm_series
    4) do not monetize the video, as its not your copyright. Arika of course may monetize your TGM video on youtube with content ID matching. :)
    5) put something like this in the description if it's on Youtube.

    TGM series are properties of Arika Co., Ltd.
    The videos are released by following the guidelines below.
    Publisher information: (Twitter profile, website, etc.)


    6) do not republish another person's video without getting permission, and following the other guidelines.

    Yeah, seems to be Club TGM take 2.

    Anyone feel free to correct me. Assuming I got it,

    I believe the purposes of these guidelines are to

    1) protect copyright of TTC (for tetris) and Arika (for TGM series)
    2) increase audience and understanding of TGM series, in hopes that TTC will allow it to expand beyond arcades.

    Pictures and video are subject to the guidelines. They appear to be a statement of what counts as fair use and respects copyright.

    Nicovideo seems to have a feature where you can register your videos under a parent video. there is an official parent video for each TGM game on Nicovideo, So if you publish on there following the guidelines, all you have to do is link the parent video. Otherwise, some boilerplate like the above i quoted is expected.
    Last edited: 24 Mar 2015
    ramiro000 likes this.
  4. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    That's what I keep saying.

    I also think that most people could reach level 999 in tgm1 using tgm3 rotation system with previews and a hold. Normal is insultingly easy, and there should be an intermediate step between the two. My best idea is a readjusted speed curve. It would have a break at 300, a second break at 600, and reach 20G at 900. Reaching level 999 would give you a transparent playable credits roll staying in 20G, which continues even if you top out, and at the end would show something likes

    Congratulations! Now try to become a Grand Master!

    and unlock master mode. For anyone who is ready for master mode, this would be a 5 minute unlock, and for those who are not, it's a decent challenge.

    Again. show the world (via stored replay) that you are a tetris grand master.
  5. You're correct, but I don't think Normal alone has enough to hold your average player for all that long before they'd get bored, and I think the difficulty curve of Master gets too steep too quickly for your average gamer to retain interest (TGM1 is much better in this regard). I don't think it would take a huge amount of tweaking, but it would probably need some. Likewise there'd be some work to be done adding any sort of online functionality (leaderboards etc), and then tying up input lag, allowing the game to work at various resolutions, beta testing, etc. There's still a fair amount of polishing that stops it being a simple repackage for Ubisoft, and it'd arguably still take more effort on their end than the PC port of Tetris Ultimate which is something they're already fully familiar with from a coding perspective.

    It'd also most likely need a pretty low price point - it's probably hitting the same sort of demographic as something like Geometry Wars. I don't think that's particularly an issue but it would cause a sticking point if TTC were being overly bullish over licensing fees. I certainly think TGM would struggle to compete as a full-priced game without adding extra modes or online multiplayer. There's plenty there if you're happy playing the same two modes over and over again, but Sakura aside the modes aren't all that distinctive to a newcomer.

    You've also got to question whether Arika would want a PC port to even exist any time soon if they're seriously looking to release an arcade version. I don't see what the point of an (already limited) arcade release would be if there's proper plans for a PC title, because surely people would rather just cough up for the game than feed arcade machines to play the same thing, at least for a game like Tetris where it's not seen as a typical arcade game.

    If your translation is correct then this seems pretty reasonable (though I don't see how they'd distinguish between a sensibly presented MAME recording and an arcade board).

    Any luck translating the Twitch stuff? Or are they just blanketing the same rules for both Twitch and YouTube?
    Last edited: 24 Mar 2015
  6. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    Well, it's clear the arcade release would be first. If it's buzz stays strong, it will make money in arcades for a while. Then when people outside of Japan do well on it, and it's made them some money, they have the argument to go global, and release on ps4/xbone/PC/ps3/xbox360/3ds/vita/etc.

    But yeah, as i said above i'd have no trouble making a master mode variant for noobs, with an easier speed curve. Beat it, and you are ready to challenge master mode. Possibly even throw in more helper items like normal did.
  7. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    it's pretty much the same rules as near as I can tell. respect copyright, use the hashtag, don't steal videos, link back to arika, help convince the world that TGM is awesome and has a place in the Guideline.
  8. Would it though? Like, would have to field this question to Kitaru or Kevin or other people with actual experience of TGM existing in western arcades, but do many people even play it outside of the TC crew? AGDQ has seen a surge in individuals buying TGM boards (at least on here) but has it done all that much for getting machines out in public places? My understanding was that most arcade establishments are already on life support, and in particular most TGM cabs existed either because there was a TC person locally pouring their personal savings into it, or because the arcade owner didn't have anything better to put in.

    I mean, there's the fact that technically it wasn't licensed and so I guess wasn't pushed on them, but really there's not been all that much stopping Western arcade owners picking up TGM games for like the last 10 years and yet they still don't seem to be all that widespread (not that proper arcades are particularly common themselves). If this thing got some feedback at an expo and location test and that maybe presented the case for a PC title, I could see things happening. If we're relying on some sort of major success as an arcade title in the West then I think it's fucked because arcades are so horrendously niche at the best of times. At least in the UK, most arcade things are typically leisure centre machines (racers, DDR, other stuff that doesn't actually have a joystick) and at the handful of proper arcades I've been to, I rarely see much action machines that aren't Street Fighter, Blazblue, Tekken or some other fighter.
  9. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    The impression i've got is that he's trying to give the western community a chance to prove they really like TGM, and if it gets support in the arcades remaining, then there's a good chance of it coming home.
  10. I'm going to a fairly new arcade that is doing quite well (existing since 2 years already - I'm in France btw), and they have a multigame system on which you can play TGM1 & 2. But I can confirm that if the supposed new PCB does cost more that 250$, they would refuse to invest their money in the game and I would have to buy it myself if I want to play it.
  11. Honestly I don't think it would take more than adding levels beyond 300, as Zaphod77 suggested. The only reason normal mode is so short is probably that it's made for arcades, and they don't want people hogging the machine without putting in more credits.
    There are plenty of ways to make TGM more approachable while retaining the hardcore fanbase - generally I've never played another Tetris game that controls so well, even from a casual point of view. It's very easy to like even if you don't know how to 20G.

    I guess it's easier to "do well" if you're making money off illegal bootlegs >_>
    (though I doubt they make enough that anyone should care)
    Last edited: 24 Mar 2015
  12. Well obviously. What else would a location test be for.

    My point is more that if we're talking a wider non-arcade release I can't see any game ever picking up enough traction purely within western arcades to justify TTC switching up a good chunk of their business strategy over it. I don't think an official western release of TGM3 right now would do all that much to increase the exposure of the game and show TTC that there's interest - the series has been out across the internet for a decade or so now, it made plenty impact at AGDQ and the subsequent PR that's fallen out from that. The demand for a playable version over here is probably already as evident as it'll ever be if TTC want to authorise one, I don't see how having a few more legit versions dotted around various arcades in the US and Europe would make any difference.

    There's no way that western arcades see total foot traffic anywhere near the 100k+ views that Kevin's Gm VOD has gotten in the last two months. Even if they did, if you want to decide whether to release a game on PC, releasing it for arcade and measuring profitability/popularity seems like unconventional market research at best.

    It'd be nice to see more arcades pick up TGM3, but I have no idea how much an official US/Europe license really means to arcade owners compared to just getting a Japanese import - an option that's been open to them for ages. And to be honest it feels pretty wildly optimistic to expect anything more than just a few more arcade copies. I feel if TTC were ever going to be keen for a PC version of TGM (or TGM4) then they'd be discussing it right now and I'd expect it would be pretty imminent.

    Like, I see where you're getting at by suggesting that this western arcade release is some kind of "proving things out" to TTC, but I think it's the complete opposite. I think it's TTC maintaining boundaries between the arcade games and the more casual home release titles, when they could be taking much bigger steps. So long as the kind of people who play Tetris Battle and buy games like Tetris Ultimate en masse aren't the kind of people who ever step foot in proper arcades (and for the most part they're not), then there's a solid market segmentation and it's not really corrupting the guideline all that much to allow TGM3 to officially exist in the west. Just look at how much TGM-Ace was butchered into the guideline when TGM previously had a console release. Meanwhile they satiate people like us a little bit from bitching about how TTC has neglected TGM and stonewalled it over here. And as a side-note it also kills the "but the game wasn't released over here!" argument for people playing pirated versions or clones.

    Or who knows, maybe Tetris Ultimate for PC will be a wildly different beast and they'll drop SRS and move reset and all the other staple aspects of every non-TGM official Tetris game in the last 10-15 years. Which would be awesome. But at the same time TTC make a crapton of money licensing shitty games with casual appeal and I'm sceptical that even the AGDQ ruckus is enough to properly drag them away from that formula.
    Last edited: 24 Mar 2015
  13. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    I agree that killing the "but the game wasn't released over here" argument is probably part of it.

    But we know that arcades aren't really that big nowadays. If there's enough buzz people will want to try for themselves. and not everyone even has an arcade available to them here in the USA now.

    I think the most recent GM grade and ADQ have done a lot to bring TGM back to the consciousness after TGM3 INVISIBLE TETRIS! has faded, and makes the series seem more accessible instead of being an insane japanese thing that there's no hope for non asians to play.
  14. That's why I'm massively sceptical that this is some sort of prelude to anything bigger - if you're trying to stir some interest I don't see the traditional arcade scene being a sensible place to do it in 2015. It is admittedly probably the only option open to Arika, but that's largely the case because TTC aren't giving them any others.

    Not everyone has an arcade available to them (I'd actually wager most people don't), but not everyone has several hundred dollars spare to drop on a single video game either. A western release might make TGM3 a bit easier to get hold of but the arcade hardware is most likely still going to be expensive. The barrier to most people here buying Ti has historically been the prohibitive base cost of a TypeX, not a licensing issue or shipping.

    Going back a bit, would also note that if the Ubisoft Tetris license is the same as the others that are floating around online, they'll potentially have issues trying to release a TGM3 port given they're explicitly restricted to conforming to the guideline. Might be some wiggle room considering there's WORLD rule in there, but it's possible that they're prevented from releasing TGM3 without either agreeing a new license and getting TTC's permission, or hugely nerfing or removing entirely the ARS stuff.
    Last edited: 24 Mar 2015
  15. So I can't stream TGM as a Twitch partner since I'm getting paid, I take it?
  16. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    Hmm. that's actually a good question.

    I'm not sure how the twitch tv stuff works. I think as long as you aren't specifically profiting from the TGM videos themselves, there isn't really a problem. but someone who knows more Japanese then I do should look it over. It's also possible that the real issue is exploiting someone else's video for money, and that your own videos are okay.

    Again i think the idea is Arika wants to see true support for TGM from the western community, which has gotten very little opportunity to do so. By uploading videos that follow the guidelines, and playing the arcade when released, we will prove our support. If it moves an even somewhat reasonable number of units, then Arika gets to say "hey, people like arcade tetris. why can't we make it for them?" ;)

    But hey, what do I know?
    Last edited: 24 Mar 2015
  17. And here I am, living in Argentina, where arcades are almost totally dead, and I really doubt some of the few arcade centers left would be willing to bring here a possible western TGM3 :S

    I really wish for a future Steam release, with some new extras and online leaderboards and multiplayer as said before.

    It's extremely unlikely that I ever see a TGM arcade game here in my country, but even so, I'm extremely happy that the series is reviving ;)
  18. Funny to think tests in US will allow someone to unlock the Shirase mode, when actually only 2 or 3 guys in the whole continent would be able to do so. 'D better send directly the game to Kevin :D
  19. I think this announcement came too early. April 1st is not until NEXT week.
    Muf likes this.
  20. I was amazed by news about new TGM game, then I got dissapointed a bit because of it's being a TGM3 re-release, which I will never get. I'm living in Russia, where arcades are very unpopular and in my town we have only 2 or 3 arcades. I'm not sure, but I think we got absolutely no TGM machines in our arcades throughout entire country and that makes me sad. The situation with clones is understandable but that means I have absolutely no way to play Tetris with TGM rotation system and rules. I like what Arika is doing but the fact, that the country where Tetris was originated from will get no release of new TGM-game, man, that's painful.

    About PC and home consoles ports - looks like the chance of ever getting them again is minimal, but at least in Japan there was one "TGM3" release on Xbox 360 - TGM Ace. What was the situation with this one? About Ubisoft - I don't think they would be interested of editing Tetris Ultimate to add the whole new rotation system, rules and more of TGM series, they already have a lot of bugs everywhere in that game.

    That's only my opinion and I'd like to hear your arguments about this.

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