Challenge: Negative Secret form

Thread in 'Competition' started by Amnesia, 5 Aug 2009.

  1. Amnesia

    Amnesia Piece of Cake

    The ultra mega hard secret form I proposed a few days ago in joking, and actually a player prooved recently that it is possible to do it, viethehand, with 3 blocks after...40min ? Don't remember.
    Kitaru, show us..

    Here is a model :

    jago (c)

    [URL=""]1--Shuey------------13 blocks--------Nullpomino (SRS)
    [/URL]2--Edo---------------4 bocks---------HEBORIS U E MINI (ARS)
    3--viethehand--------3 blocks--------Blockbox (classic mode/SRS)
    4--Amnesia-----------1 block---------Blockbox (classic mode/ARS)
    Guys, it is VERY hard..
    Last edited: 17 Oct 2011
  2. Whoa. Is it possible to finish?
  3. Amnesia

    Amnesia Piece of Cake

    it is statisticaly impossible to finish it..But something like 14-15 block would be the humanely max possible..
  4. Edo

    Edo a.k.a. FSY

    I managed this quite a while ago, but wasn't in a posting mood at the time. I actually got the first 4 blocks in about 5 minutes, but took over 20 more minutes attempting to get the 5th, which I never managed. If anyone is interested, I could post a few tips and strategies to help get them started; let me know if anyone wants me to do this.

  5. wow nice Edo
    I am interested please post a few tips
  6. Ai


    I'm also interested in strategies and tips. It would be useful if someone posted a video with annotations.

    I wonder how far a player like SAL can get if he really plays this seriously. And maybe someone could post some tips for regular secret grade too. ^^
    Last edited: 14 Sep 2009
  7. Muf


    Works for me. :|
  8. It was a hosts file problem on my side.
  9. Edo

    Edo a.k.a. FSY

    It looks like there's a little bit of interest for some Nega Secret Grade strategies; I'll see if I can cobble together some pictures and hopefully have something up by tomorrow evening.
    As a little puzzle for the meantime, see if you can work out what's wrong with the picture below. If you know the answer, don't blurt it out, let people give it a try for themselves.

  10. Ai


    Thanks both of you Edo and Kitaru! ^^
  11. Edo

    Edo a.k.a. FSY

    Last night I posted a picture of a tetris playfield and asked what was wrong with it. Hopefully, some of you who had a chance to look at it will have realised that it contained an odd number of blocks. Blocks enter the playfield in groups of 4 (a tetromino), and leave in groups of 10 (a line); in a standard game of tetris it is never possible to have an odd number of blocks in the playfield. (Observant people will have noticed that the diagram in Amnesia's original post is also impossible!)

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    When you realise that it's impossible to start the pattern by leaving a solitary block as in the pictures above, it then becomes apparent that one possible way of starting is to leave 2 blocks in the bottom left, and then platform across using Z pieces:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    (Please forgive me if you're more used to SRS colours; I'm a TGM man, and I'm likely to make mistakes if I start using a colour scheme that I'm not as familiar with; I hope it doesn't confuse you too much.)

    So how is it possible to leave 2 blocks behind in order to start our pattern? Well, if we begin by stacking an I vertically, we'll find that even if we could generate whatever pieces we wanted, we would not be able to leave behind just the 2 blocks:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    We are trying to clear an even number of lines beneath the block that will become the first step in the pattern; if we were to prop the I piece up by one and clear an odd number of lines instead, we would not have this problem:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The reason for this is that clearing even numbers of lines will use up an exact number of whole tetrominoes, (e.g. 2 lines requires exactly 5 tetrominoes), so by clearing 2 lines we would not be able to leave the half tetromino that we needed to start.

    As can be seen above, to clear 3 lines requires quite a specific sequence of tetrominoes, so it's better to prop the I piece up even higher to give more space to work with and allow for more flexibility, like so:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    We now want to clear an even number of lines beneath the block that will become the second step in our pattern, and again, it might be a good idea to give yourself more space to work with. On the left, quite a rigid 4 line setup; on the right, a more flexible 8 line start:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Hopefully you get the idea by now, and your pattern will progress something like this:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    To summarize:
    You start with 0 blocks in the playfield, and want to add 2, so clear an odd number of lines.
    You then have 2 blocks in the playfield, and want to stay at 2, so clear an even number of lines.
    You still have 2 blocks in the playfield, but want to add another 2, so clear an odd number of lines.
    You then have 4 blocks in the playfield, and want to stay at 4, so clear an even number of lines.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I hope this helps get you started, although I honestly feel I've only scratched the surface. There's lots more that can be discussed, for example, what happens when it's not possible to bridge across perfectly with S and Z pieces, etc. Hopefully, I've provided enough pretty pictures to keep you entertained for the time being :)
  12. So I was right in what I thought was wrong with the playing field.

    Some smart stuff Edo (to be expected really). I definitely wouldn't have put so much depth of thought into the mechanics of building the shape.
  13. Last edited: 25 Dec 2010
  14. Amnesia

    Amnesia Piece of Cake

    nice !!
  15. orz


    yo this is cool as hell and also insane
  16. SYN7HOR

    SYN7HOR Drama Queen

    Whoa, nice Shuey!

    That stuff is just crazy. I'm scared to even try actually.
  17. Thanks guys :). It's actually not so much "hard" as it is "time consuming". I made it to 6 rows yesterday but made a stupid mistake that screwed my progress. And sadly, I didn't realize that if I would've just killed myself, I could've picked up where I left off using a replay; but since I exited the game, it didn't save. So I'll have to spend at least an hour getting back to 6 rows before I can continue on past that point.

    Edo uses a slightly different technique than me it seems. I don't stack as high working towards each row, but there's more than one way to skin a cat so whatever works for each individual is what should be used.

    I am 100% certain that I'll be able to build at least 10 rows, and I'm hoping to reach at least 14. I'm not sure how much further you could build beyond that due to the work space limitations at that height.

    I most likely won't have time to shoot for this again until this weekend, but I'll post an updated pic of my progress when I get there :)
  18. I had some time to work on this during my lunch hour today. I will continue this build tomorrow if I have time and post back if I make more progress, but here's what I have so far.

    Last edited: 28 Dec 2010

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