mac, linux or web-only decent online multiplayre tetris?

Nick, buddy, please stop equating key presses with slowness. Things aren't that simple. Parallel inputs etc etc we've been down this road before. IHS has been mentioned, but even other options exist. Even with ARE-less games you could press it while your DAS (especially instant DAS) was charging with no penalty. In the worst case where you have to place a piece in the middle or move it just 1 or 2 spaces, efficient use of Hold would add a minimal delay to your play... And presumeably you'd be using Hold as a lesser of 2 evils, so as to prevent an uncomfortable situation that would slow you down.

Hold is only slow if you're not awesome at using it.

You're hugely misunderstanding Sirlin here. Tetris has very very few arbitrary challenges. The sort of thing Sirlin is getting at is not unlike the change from Sega's Tetris to TGM, or BPS's Tetris to the guideline. Add wallkicks, add stuff like IRS and IHS, and sure, add stuff like infinity too. Sirlin is all about getting some idea in your head, and being able to execute it without unnecessary bullshit.


Extra previews have absolutely nothing to do with helping or hindering a player's execution of moves. All they really do is allow for more advanced strategizing while not slowing the game down, something Sirlin would undoubtably favour. Releasing a VS Tetris game with a single preview in this day and age is not unlike Nintendo's philosophy with Brawl... Gimping the game by removing things only experienced players use, thereby forcing everyone to play at the lowest common denominator. 1 preview is in the same vein as adding a 1 second ARE or slow DAS just because beginners need at least that much time.


I'd say listen to TGM players when it comes to previews... we move around a lot from TAP and Ti rules.

 

I know you think parallel key presses "etc ect" invalidates my assessment (because you've lectured me on it already), but I just can't help but look at polly's Quadra video and then look at Mihys's DTET video. Polly presses far more keys/second than Mihys, yet Mihys was able to attain faster tetrominoes/second. Something is very different about the way the two play, and I believe that something has to be keys/tetromino


Could you elaborate on the DAS bit? I can see if you keep right pressed down (with instant DAS and initial sideways and diagonal all switched on), you drop the piece while still having right pressed down, then press hold, then the next piece will appear all the way right instantly, but then you're still pressing drop hold drop rather than drop drop, and you still have to process that extra tetromino mentally.


Yes hold gives the player an advantage in smarter placement, but I don't see how it could make a player faster. There's too many examples (Quadra and DTET alike) of games that don't use hold and yet players go super fast.


As for Sirlin, I don't think he was purely just talking about technical execution. It's the idea of unnecessary gameplay restrictions (one piece preview, no hold, etc) I was trying to relate. Just like he was talking about how Blizzard was reluctant to change Starcraft 2's selection limit of more than twelve units in one of his recent articles.

 

Well, I am assuming that DAS charge is carried over when pressing the Hold button. This is the case in TGM, I'm not sure about other games. The idea is that the active piece just sits there while DAS is charging. If you press Hold during this time, then the held piece becomes the active piece, and it enters the screen with partially charged DAS. DAS then finishes charging and the piece reaches its destination no slower than if it had been simply dealt as a next piece.


So, if DAS'ing a held piece would make a good placement, you can use Hold without penalty. Or in the case of first populating the Hold box, you'd have to notice that the second next piece can be DAS'ed to a good location.

 

Then does something like Lockjaw have dissociative identity disorder?


EDIT: c_t beat me to explaining the DAS bit. But there is a one-DAS-cycle penalty (one frame in TGM, five frames in TDS), as DAS starts with the piece in the center, not one cell over. But I can confirm that both TDS and LJ do carry over the DAS charge when the player uses hold piece.

 

i totally agree with c_t:

many preview pieces are a very positive additon to the core tetris gameplay, without even changing it too much. it is up to the player to use the enhanced tools given him at hand.

many previews allow for very tactical, strategic gameplay, sort of chess like. if you have the mental capabilities, just use the previews and plan ahead.

if not just look at the next piece.


hold: until recently i didnt use hold at all. but now i love it: it helps avoiding uncomfotable situations. though i think hold has more impact on the gameplay difficulty than the previews, because i personally think that hold makes the game a lot easier (storing an I piece, or just panicswapping a not well fitting piece with a probably better fitting one in hold. i find myself often hitting hold in situations were i realize that the current piece just does not fit, and even dont know if the one in HOLD fits better...) on the other hand, if you want to play FAST and efficiently, you need to memorize what is in hold. so hold is also a nice tactical enhancement. an additional tool, that makes the gameplay more interesting.

 

Caffeine, most of the time you spend playing a game of Tetris is thinking time. A hold requires perhaps more thinking too, but the fact that it allows you to stack more easily surely doesn't completely compromise your speed.

There's also the fact that hold is (for me at least) a button that doesn't require me to move fingers around. It has it's own finger.


I would accept that when you start getting into the really fast levels of speed, the hold function will reduce the speed, but PPM is really not all that is important in multiplayer Tetris. It's not just how many pieces you place, but also how well and effectively you place them.

 

First, have you ever considered growing up?


Second, "action-based" and "speed-based" are two different things in the sense that...picture Tetrinet. Picture all the little quirks and gimmicks. That game is far less about how you are with handling the pieces and more about the attacks you throw around. Why group them at all? Since you can't design a Tetrinet and a non-gimmick game the same way. Why not describe what I think works best? Since this isn't my PERSONAL Tetris game. I'm going to suggest things that would probably get a bunch of downloads and work as the kind of game the guy wants to make.


As for the rest, other people are dealing with hold piece, so I don't need to. Number of previews? Three sounds good to me, but again, three, six, twenty-five, one...it's a personal preference and if downloads are a goal, making a game for the TC crowd probably isn't enough. A second option for more "traditional" players would probably help, and "one preview" is part of that. As for garbage, as a fan of random garbage myself, I'm surprised that that's not a minority here...

 

edit: k, digital just told me i called you air bag. that was a complete brain fart, and now i get why you told me to grow up. sorry.

 

Why try to find the best set of options when allow the server to decide? Include several server gametype presets, as well as the ability to customize the rules.


Take a look at Lockjaw. It has a few more defined gametypes, along with a full custom slot. You have a balance of choices and standardization, along with the option to take free reign over all of the rules.


Also take a look at Super Smash Brothers. Not everyone is a "NO ITEMS. FOX ONLY. FINAL DESTINATION." player. Sometimes you want to get together with some friends, turn on explosives, crank the damage ratio, and have a good time.

 

If it's going to be server decides the rules then i think there needs be limited game type presets. Too many customizable rules i think would split up the players among too many servers. I like having over 5 people in a server but maybe that's just my preference and maybe not so with everyone else.


Also I think speed dedicated servers are a good idea(stealing that from Cultris who might have stolen that from someone else). It allows people to go against people within a range of their speed. I know i hated when i was playing in a server and i was going 50 bpm and everyone else was going 120bpm. It's also annoying i think for fast people to continually be going against slow people.

 

that "<100ppm" crap from cultris is retarded. i hate it. speed restriction is the dumbest thing i've ever heard of.

 

I don't think it's a bad idea.

The game could take your average ppm from your last twenty games or so.

You could have servers with specific ranges for average ppm, like 50~100, 75~125, 100~150 etc, and it would allow players to make sure they're not going to come up against huge gaps in terms of ability.

 

it's a negative motivation against speed. it's saying "don't improve."

 

Or it's saying "improve things other than your speed".


Does the game start screwing with the ARE to keep the player under the speed limit? Or does the server just boot a fast player?

 

No, it's saying "you should improve, but we're going to help see that things don't suck while you're improving".


I'm not saying all the servers should have ppm limits, but the option would be nice. There's nothing wrong with n00b servers.

 

It just kicks the player. I know from experience. Well, at least most servers kick; some of them may just shift the ARE or DAS.

 

I get your point but i don't think that is the case.


First to those who don't know speed restricted servers don't mess with anything as far as DAS or ARE all it does is if during two games while you are in the server you go over the speed you get kicked as Ghetto said, also if your average ppm is higher than the restricted speed then you can not get into the server at all.


The speed restricted servers give a chance for slower people(usually the people starting, there are exceptions) to play people their speed. If you are playing people in a server with people going 120+ and you are going 60-70ppm you probably won't last long and if you are dying quickly then you aren't getting much practice. Without speed restricting servers people new to the game would have to practice in single player until they are good enough to take on people who have months/years more practice than them. As Rosti pointed not all of them needs speed restriction but one or two would be nice for newcomers to train.

 

That's why TDS has rating-based WFC match making.


As long as a dedicated server can host multiple games, it can pair off the players with the closest ratings.

 

same with tetris mobile (elo). i remember seeing a 70ppm girl beating a 150ppm guy on tnet2 before.