I have a question: If I make a Tetris my opponent gets 4 lines of garbage leaving one hole in every row. In which column do the holes come? In my opinion the holes are not randomized, as they are placed a long time in the same column, but i can't find a rule for it. Sometimes the column changes. I've read your strategy guide and your Tetris DS-guide but I can't find an answer to this question. I'm playing Tetris DS. Thanks in advance Cupid
i haven't found out exactly how the garbage randomizer works, yet. sometimes it comes all in a row-- sometimes it doesn't. i've noticed it comes more random as i put my handicap up in friends games, but as far as standard wifi play, i'm as stumped as you are.
When all the garbage holes are lined up in Tetris DS WIFi it's almost as if you help your opponent as oposed to random holes. Here is my guess of how it works. If you put your "I" piece in the same spot over and over the holes are lined up. If you switch it up it leaves random holes. Thats just a theory but I really want to know the truth
I am trying to figure out garbage placement myself. I have been playing Tetris DS Classic Vs. getting back to back tetrii in the furthest right column every time, and these are my results. X markes the hole in the garbage. The following are true back to back tetrii, I actually dropped the I piece one right after another using Tetris DS's hold function. and since I am only playing the level 1 computer I usually get both tetrii in before he drops a piece to seperate the garbage: OOOOOXOOOO OOOOOOOXOO OOXOOOOOOO OOXOOOOOOO OOXOOOOOOO OOXOOOOOOO OXOOOOOOOO OXOOOOOOOO OXOOOOOOOO ------------------ XOOOOOOOOO XOOOOOOOOO OOXOOOOOOO OOXOOOOOOO XOOOOOOOOO XOOOOOOOOO OXOOOOOOOO XOOOOOOOOO XOOOOOOOOO ------------------ OOOOOOOXOO OOOOOOOXOO OOOXOOOOOO OOOXOOOOOO OOOXOOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO OOOOOXOOOO OOOOOXOOOO The following is the same as above, except the tetrii are performed in the left column instead: OOOOOOXOOO OXOOOOOOOO OXOOOOOOOO OXOOOOOOOO OXOOOOOOOO OXOOOOOOOO OXOOOOOOOO XOOOOOOOOO OOOOOXOOOO ------------------ OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO XOOOOOOOOO OXOOOOOOOO OXOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOXOO OOOXOOOOOO OOOXOOOOOO OOOXOOOOOO ------------------ OOOOOXOOOO OOOOOXOOOO OOOOOXOOOO OOOOOXOOOO OOOOOXOOOO OOOOOOOOXO OOOOOOOOXO OOOOOOOOOX OOOOOXOOOO Then I set it up so I could get one tetris in the left column and the back to back one in the right column, for some reason in Tetris DS this sends 10 lines of garbage instead of 9... : OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOXOOOOOOO OOXOOOOOOO OOXOOOOOOO OOOXOOOOOO OXOOOOOOOO OXOOOOOOOO OXOOOOOOOO Lastly I did my back to back and my stack was so high I had change left over for another tetris, four pieces later I sent another tetris (all in the right-most column) and this is what it looks like: OOOOOXOOOO OOOOOXOOOO OOOOOXOOOO OOOOXOOOOO OOOOOXOOOO OOOOOOOOOX OOOXOOOOOO OOOXOOOOOO OOOXOOOOOO XOOOOOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO OOXOOOOOOO So... I have no idea what to make of this, I was hoping maybe someone here could. My belief is that where the hole forms is dependent on where the last piece (or maybe even last few pieces) was/were placed on either (or maybe both) players screen(s). However, I don't have a camera so I have no way of recording my gameplay and collecting my data.
I'm sorry, I just replicated the left-right tetris two more times and both times they gave 9 lines of garbage, I don't know how I counted ten last time.
I took a break and left my DS on... and now I get this keep in mind I almost always complete my tetrii but putting an I peice on the right-most side: OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO ========== OOOOOOOOXO OOOOOOOOXO OOOOOOOOOX OOOOOOOOOX OOOOOOOOOX OOOOOOOOOX OOOOOOOOOX OOOOOOOOOX OOOOOOOOOX ========== OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOXOOOOOO OOOXOOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO ========== XOOOOOOOOO XOOOOOOOOO XOOOOOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO ========== OOOOOOOOOX OOOOOOOOOX OOOOOOOOOX OOOOOXOOOO OOOOOXOOOO XOOOOOOOOO XOOOOOOOOO XOOOOOOOOO XOOOOOOOOO ========== OOOOXOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO OXOOOOOOOO OXOOOOOOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOXOOOOOOO OXOOOOOOOO ========== XOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOX OOOOOOOOOX OOOOOOOOXO OOOOOXOOOO OOOOOOOOOX OOXOOOOOOO OOXOOOOOOO OOXOOOOOOO ========== XOOOOOOOOO XOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOOXOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO I just managed 4 back to back tetrii... it looks like this: OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOXOOO OOOOOOOOXO OOOOOOOOXO OOOOOOOOXO OOOOOOOOXO OOOOOOOOXO OOOOXOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO OOOOXOOOOO For the most part everything now is coming out straight... as odd as it may sound, I think that it might have something to do with what time it is or how long the system has been on. Damn it I just wish there were a simple solution to this.
You should read the front page... I think your theory is just a chance association. Anyways I think there is a simple explanation. Look at this tally: #Repeats: 103 #Changes: 49 It's still a fairly small sample, but it seems plausible to me that 2/3 of the time the game keeps the same column for its garbage hole, and 1/3 of the time it changes to a new spot. Bob, you seem quite detail oriented. Would you be willing to transcribe, say, 1500 pieces for me? As in, start a round of Endless and note which pieces you get as you go along. I've made a program that can process the information if you write it in a standard manner in a TXT file. I've used it to successfully analyze the piece randomizer in TGM games. TDS also seems to not be purely random (unlike the early Tetris games that would give 6 Z pieces in a row). It might be neat to figure out what it does. If you're up to the task let me know and I'll tell you the proper format.
I spent quite a while trying to figure out how the garbage works, and I came to the same conclusion. In fact, I think those are the exact fractions I'd conjectured. I did about 150 lines worth of testing with only tetrises, and about 150 lines worth with mixed doubles and triples; there wasn't really any difference. Additionally, I've heard that adjusting the handicap for friends matches can make garbage "more random". That's easily explained if we assume the garbage works like this; a higher handicap means a higher chance that the hole location will change when you get a new garbage line.
Well then, if all 450 lines of garbage are pointing at the same ratio, it sounds like it's case closed. Something to consider: There are 2 different parsimonious models for this. 1. 2/3 Same, 1/3 Other 2. 2/3 Same, 1/3 Random -> 7/10 Same, 3/10 Other I skipped some algebra there, but anyone comfortable with probability can easily figure it out. The distinction between 'other' and 'random' is that other is distinctly a non-repeat while random chooses a new spot... which may possibly be a repeat 1/10 of the time. This detail changes the odds in favour of a repeat by about 3.33%, from 66.66% to 70.00%. So if you guys consistently notice slightly more than 2/3 of lines being repeats, this might explain it.
So, how many lines would it take to distinguish an accurate difference between 1:3 and 3:10 odds of other?
And also, that very first hole in garbage, is that considered a repeat, an other, or neither? I'm going with neither.
It's ignored... It's necessary but worthless. And short of disassembling the game's code you'll never truly know what's going on. The more lines you analyze the better your guess will be though.
MY MISTAKE! 446:172 samether equates to 446/618 (72.17%) chance for the hole to be in the same spot, 27.83% chance that it will shift. I will add to these numbers later.
722:283 puts my ratio just over 1000... 722/(722+283) = 71.84% I think this is as close as we can get without actually opening our tetris DS carts. If anyone else wants to continue my work go ahead.
"Apparently the higher your Wifi Ranking score is, the garbage lines sent TO you may be more randomized."
