# how do you counter someone who tspins nonstop on tetris ds?

i was playing someone earlier on wifi and even though i was faster and was doin alot of b2b tetrises, he would beat me w/ his nonstop b2b tspin chains. I'm not that good w/ tspins yet , what do you think I should do against someone like that? He was ignoring the few lines of garbage that went through. Also, is back to back tspins easier to do in nintendo ds than other games because of how garbage works? or am i going to be in trouble in other games too lol. Oh, last question - is there only a few starting piece orders set on tetris ds? is that how he knows exactly where to put everything right away?

2. ### Rosti LFC

Really the only way to counter someone that good at t-spins is simply retaliate with t-spins, or time when you send your garbage in such a way as it kills him.

This video might help slightly:

There is not specific sequence of pieces at the start, but on Tetris DS it uses a 7-piece bag as a randomiser, meaning you get all 7 different pieces in a random order, followed by the 7 different pieces again in another random order, and so on until the game ends.

3. ### caffeine

t-spins are stronger than tetrises, it's a simple as that. you give four lines for two instead of for four. you'd stand a better shot on xbox's evolution and splash because their t-spins are much more curbed (no-kick). tds has kick t-spins, which makes them more available, yet more complicated. either way, you have to find a way to become less dependent on tetrises.

thanks for the reply rosti, didn't know tspins were that much better than tetrises. Do the top ds players mainly go for tspin chains in 1v1?

whats no-kick and kick btw? yeah i noticed ds is alot more tspin dependant than splash. I'm making some progress on tspins, but recognizing when to tspin and setting up back to backs are tricky for me.

6. ### Rosti LFC

Personally, I don't "go" for t-spins. I don't stack with the sole intention of using t-spins.

Really, you can play normally as long as you are able to see opportunities to create t-spins, and use them.

Most common one that crops up is by far the t-spin double. Learn that shape, and look for opportunities to create it when you can, because they'll pop up extremely frequently.

Example:

That's a Tetris DS match about 2:30 minutes long. I wasn't playing very well, and I don't stack for t-spins, but I got ten t-spin doubles in that video. There were a few more opportunities I missed as well.

Knowing the more complex ones can help, and if you get the right set of pieces at the start to set one up, you should probably take advantage of that.

While being able to see them is good, try not to force t-spins. Don't go out of your way to try and set one up, and glance at the next pieces to make sure you're getting a t-spin reasonably soon when you do attempt them, because if you screw up, need to wait for too long, or have to abort the setup you're not going to get a very pleasant stack to work with at the end of it.

7. ### DIGITALUnregistered

Optimal play doesn't rely on only tetrises or only on T-spins. You have to learn to incorporate both into your play to maximize garbage opportunities. The best and most frequent way of setting up a T-Spin is right over an empty column. This applies mainly towards T-Spin Singles and T-Spin Doubles. Not only are they extremely easy to spot, they're easy to set up as well, often requiring only one piece placement to finish the setup. Check out the wiki for examples.

8. ### caffeine

you can learn the difference between kick and no kick on the twists article. i kind of disagree with some of the people here. i see no reason to do tetrises unless the garbage opens for them (which happens a lot because of the stupid garbage randomizer). like, why would i start off with a tetris when it takes less pieces to make a t-spin?

9. ### jujubeUnregistered

to make more T-spin doubles it really helps to learn techniques that level both sides of your empty column. then sometimes it's as easy as creating the overhang and you're done with the setup.

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L
LLL      X
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XXXXXXXX  JJXXXXXXXX   XXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX  J XXXXXXXX  X XXXXXXXX
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there are other situations where keeping this levelling idea in mind can lead to an eventual TSD.

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I   Z
I SS ZZOO
L   ISS ZXOO
XXXX  XX  XXXX LLLXX  XXXX XXXXX
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^ ^
continuing

X
X   X
X XX XXXX  X      X  Z
XXXTTTXXXX  X   X   XLLL ZZX
XXXXTXXXXX  X XX XXXX  XLXX ZXXXX
XXXX XXXXX  XXXX XXXXX  XXXX XXXXX
^ ^
blink, you should come to the chatroom at http://www.blockstats.org sometime. we've been playing a bit of TDS there lately.

thanks for all the replies. I think I play similarly to you in that video rosti, not building for a t-spin except when it becomes available. It makes me question myself if this is a good strategy since the person who intentionally built t-spin setups got the better of me. I think I agree with you here caffeine, why setup a tetris when I can add the same amount of lines w/ fewer blocks, and thanks for the tip jujube.

11. ### Rosti LFC

You need Tetrises at some point. You can't sustain only t-spins with a 7-piece bag. You don't clear the lines fast enough.

Someone who uses only t-spins can be easily beaten if you get the garbage in quickly at the right times, because there's nothing they can do about clearing it while they're setting up the t-spins.

I already said starting with a t-spin is probably the best way to go. If the pieces go your way, then back to back triples or doubles are quite possible.

12. ### DIGITALUnregistered

We're talking about TDS here. Strategies for other games may not apply.

1. That's THE main reason to tetris.

2. It's much harder and rare to BtB T-Spins with T-Spins than to BtB with mixed permutations of tetrises and T-Spins. Furthermore, the randomizer deals out ONE of each tetromino per bag, not TWO.

3. It's harder to keep the field flat when T-Spinning as opposed to tetrising.

4. Tetrises are for defensive purposes because they clear more lines. T-Spins are for offensive purposes since they send more garbage per line. (Ignore garbage countering and base garbage sent) Both can be utilized for specific purposes to raise effectiveness of said purpose.

13. ### DIGITALUnregistered

Kick T-Spins are not really that essential. The only one truly useful midgame is the T-Spin Single that needs the kick. Most strong players on TDS ignore kick T-Spins otherwise. A kick T-Spin like a T-Spin Triple tend to be quite unnessary in the light of a T-Spin Double over an empty column. I've seen many more losses than wins resulting from a TST.

Even NOAH, the best T-Spin player I've ever seen on TDS, cannot overcome the strength of a TSD+tetris player by using TSTs.

14. ### jujubeUnregistered

that all depends. if someone is hell bent on making only T-spins this could be true. but you can also play effectively and keep things flat by making double, TSD, single, TSD, uncover garbage hole, triple, TSD.

are we talking hc2 or worldwide?

edit: i think we can agree forcing TSTs is a no-no. but in a situation like this i can't come up with a better solution.

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L XXXXXXX  XZZXXXXXXX  XX XXXXXXX
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LL XXXXXXX  XX XXXXXXX  XX XXXXXXX
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this is another possibility but requires 2 T pieces:

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LLL     XXX
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JJ XXXXXXX  XXTXXXXXXX   XXX
J XXXXXXX  XTTXXXXXXX   XXXXXXX
J XXXXXXX  X TXXXXXXX  X XXXXXXXX
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XXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXX

15. ### caffeine

tst's are just as good as tsd's, which are just as good as tss's. it's just that tsd's are often the cleanest, making them the safest option.

in short, playing it safe and leaning on tetrises don't need to be the same thing.

p.s. i hate tspins just so everyone knows.

16. ### DIGITALUnregistered

Heh, but that's the reason TSDs are better than TSTs. They're safer and they send the same amount of garbage per line cleared. Plus, they're easier to BtB into a tetris.

Playing it safe doesn't have to depend on making tetrises. The point is that tetrises are safer than T-Spins.

17. ### jujubeUnregistered

i'm'a have my cake and eat it too. then have some more
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edit: i just sent you 16 lines!

18. ### DIGITALUnregistered

You have to admit, that situation is like a myth compared to the amount of times TSDs show up. Even when they do show up, they're still harder to setup than a TSD.

19. ### jujubeUnregistered

yeah, TSDs happen more often hehe. but you never know...

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I XXXXXXX
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X XXXXXXXX   XXXXXXX
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oh noes! what now do i do.

Code:
 ZZ
ZZ     XX
JJ XXXXXXX   XX
J XXXXXXX  XXTXXXXXXX
JSSXXXXXXX  XTTXXXXXXX   XX
SS XXXXXXX  XXTXXXXXXX   XX
yay, TST!

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why thank you stupid garbage.

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XIXXXXXXXX
XIXXXXXXXX
XIXXXXXXXX   XX
XIXXXXXXXX   XX
now if i could just get one more little tiny hole...

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X XXXXXXXX
TDS garbage, you're my bff rofl wtf hoo-ah

edit: i just sent you 20 lines!

20. ### DIGITALUnregistered

You make it sound as though we can set up a TSD cleanly at every opportunity. Easier said than done. You'd probably end up stacking around the setup more often than not, which can lead to field instability if done excessively. Also, if you have to clear all those lines to keep the field flat, you'd end up losing time from the line clear animation and BtB in addition to the time it takes to soft drop.

Both. Worldwide garbage can be messy but it's still clean enough to put TST players at a disadvantage. NOAH did not focus his style on TSTs until he was not playing worldwide anymore or so I've heard from as7.

EZ TSS
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L XXXXXXX  XJ XXXXXXX  XX XXXXXXX
L XXXXXXX  XJ XXXXXXX  XX XXXXXXX
LL XXXXXXX  XX XXXXXXX  XX XXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXX
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You can stack another line above the column to set up a BtB.
Incomplete TSD TSS
Code:
               ZZ
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XXXXXXX  LL XXXXXXX  XX XXXXXXX
JXXXXXXX  LXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXX
JXXXXXXX  LXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXX
JJXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXX 
Another method would be to use two Js/Ls to set up for a tetris if the situation comes. Or you can just place the L/J like the above diagrams and skim downward with two line clears to be safe. Or even just place the L/J like in the diagram and make an inverted skim with a L/J to set up a TSD.

EDIT: Yoshihiro anyone? http://fumen.zui.jp/?v100@4dG3ibG3ibG3i ... BMVBNVBESB