# Hello, W

Thread in 'Discussion' started by Mederic, 17 Sep 2010.

1. ### Mederic

New to the forum, but here on a mission...and that mission is this...to build a tgm cabinet.

Sadly, i need a bit of assistance...am hoping there is someone or anyone who has any pictures...schematics, or diagrams to aid me, perhaps some websites on where to find the internal components, or how to hook it to computer components to use Mamet with...anything would be awesome, thanks in advance to everyone!

Last edited: 17 Sep 2010
2. ### Muf

Don't go for a MAME cabinet. Invest in authenticity and get an arcade board. What version of TGM are you interested in, 1, 2, or 3?

3. ### Mederic

2 plus...is the only I've played so I'm partial to it....any recommendations on where to get the board at and the price range? Authenticity is nice, but cost effective is occasionally better...can get a semi decent comp setup and run Linux on it

EDIT***

Actually, I'm thinking I want TGM3 instead...I'm a big fan of the hold piece because of the extra level of gameplay it adds, and after some researching it seems 2plus does not have it...which is a bummer, because I like it. And after further research, TGM3 isn't available for mame so I must find an arcade board...back to the question...any recommendations or ideas?

Last edited: 17 Sep 2010
4. ### Kitaru

The nice thing about TGM3 is that you can output to a standard VGA monitor right off the bat -- no need to have an arcade monitor or convert the signal for TV if you don't want to.

Bare minimum requirements to play the game:
+Taito Type X with TGM3 - $800~$1700 depending on how lucky you get.
+JAMMA to JVS - $70~$120, used for wiring up controls
+JAMMA harness - ~\$10
+controls - This depends. Ideally, you should be looking into Japanese parts like Sanwa JLF and OBSF-30, or JLW and OBSN-30 if you mount on a thicker wood panel. See sites like Lizard Lick, Akibahara Shop, and Sanwa's Rakuten store for more information.
+VGA monitor - Hey, you probably already have one!
+speakers - These too! TGM3 on a PC-based hardware sure is convenient.

If you do end up building a MAME cabinet, you've already completed most of the steps necessary to build a cabinet that can host TGM3 or other PC-based hardware games, such as Street Fighter IV, Raiden IV, Homura, etc.

5. ### Mederic

I'll definitely take a look at those sites later on. However...I'm a touch worried about resolution, does anyone know what TGM3 plays at? I'm hoping to get a really nice sized monitor (I have a thing for a nice big screen) and am debating on making one of those cabinets that has the gap between the controls and the screen (they just look really nice). I also am wondering if it is better to go with a 4:3 monitor or 16:9. If it's possible to get a 1920x1080 signal that would be super epic, if not, then meh.

As far as controller I'm either going with X-arcade's tankstick or North Coast custom's Classic stick. The tankstick's price is alot more comforting though, but the customization options I can get on the NCC stick is just ridiculous...craziness. I haven't looked into the japanese controllers yet but I shall now, thanks for the heads up on those part numbers!

Thanks again for the input!

Again, I won't be able to start this rig till after the holidays, but when I do start, expect there to be pictures and info to follow!

EDIT***

Coin Op Express sells the Taito Type X part fo about 500-800 dollars, but they have no TGM3 version...so the question is, where can I get an HDD with TGM on it? Or where can I get TGM3 so I can install it to a harddrive myself?

Last edited: 17 Sep 2010
6. ### Edoa.k.a. FSY

I just took a quick look at the http://www.tops-game.jp/ site, and they currently have a bare TypeX motherboard for 27300JPY (that's approximately 300 dollars), and a TypeX with TGM3 for 109200JPY. To the best of my knowledge, it's not possible to use a standard OEM harddisk with a TypeX.

I'm sure that most people here would recommend that you do not go with the X-arcade. Firstly, it's over-priced for what it is. Secondly, it uses joysticks which are Happ knock-offs, and 8-way only; and for TGM, you really need joysticks that can be switched to 4-way. Basically, the only joystick you really need to consider is the Sanwa JLF. The Sanwa JLW and the Seimitsu LS-32 are also reasonable choices, but to keep things simple, just go with the JLF.

Last edited: 18 Sep 2010
7. ### Mederic

I used google to translate that page but I don't see where to go to purchase items. However, wasn't -quite- the answer to my question xD

Coin op has a Type X with king of fighters 98 for a decent price, and it looks like it's just a PATA hardrive for the game. So my question remains...where can one buy a TGM3 hard drive? Or perhaps a site dedicated to us non-japanese speaking fans that sells them?

So a 4 direction stick is optimal, I assume then there is a stick that switches between 4 and 8? (In case I get (which I probably will) other games for the type x?)

Also, that's just the stick, what about the actual board? Any recommendations? Or is the actual controller little more than a big hollow piece used to support the controllers? This is why I'm hoping for anyone familiar with this for input, buying the parts is one thing, but assembling I'm hoping for some expertise on, I'm googling as much as I can but getting little return other than pre-built rigs...which obviously won't work as X-arcade was what everything was pointed too.

8. ### Muf

If you're looking for pre-built JAMMA control solutions then there are products like the Pana Twin Long or the Vega 9000. They are pretty expensive and hard to find though.

Building your own invariably gives you more options. I'm currently building a supergun based on the shell of a Sega Virtua Stick Saturn. This is how it looks stock:

And this is the customisation I've done so far:

Still working on the internals. I had a test prototype which I took with me to a Tetris meeting a few weeks back, and while we couldn't get it to work with TGM1 or TAP, it was a big hit for playing Ti. The final version should be compatible with all game boards.

Anyway, if you're looking to build your own, the search term you want to use is "supergun". That's the word to describe a device that lets you play arcade games at home without a cabinet.

9. ### Mederic

Thank you! That probably is the term I'm looking for...I found this on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSdH2w1SJN4 which was a WONDERFUL assistance in answering my question...I assume the breadboard he used would then be connected to the typeX with another adapter, but that's neither here nor there.

Now that I have an idea for the controller, I know where to go, and I actually have an idea for what I want to do: 4 sticks, 2 center sticks have 2 rows of 3 buttons and then one button diagonal, those two sticks will be 4 way (for tetris and others like it), and the 2 outter sticks will have 2 rows of 4 buttons (for the 2d fighters and schmups)

This is going to INITIALLY be for tetris, but I see no reason why I shouldn't make room for growth >->

Anywho, now with that out of the way, time to find some diagrams for a cabinet...and from everything I read, going for a widescreen doesn't seem to be the best bet....LCD for sure (lighter, easier to find, less hassle connecting), but I'm still not sure on the 16x9 or 4x3. Definitely going large though, at least a 32" (big cabinet, yes)

10. ### Muf

I'm afraid you're still looking in the wrong direction. The video you linked to is a MAME cabinet with a PC inside; the breadboard is a keyboard encoder that converts the various directions and buttons into PC keystrokes.

Apply the KISS principle. Most arcade games can be played with 6 or less buttons. If you align these in the standard Japanese curved layout, you can play any game you like on them, by utilising all or a subset of the buttons.
Street Fighter games use the full 6 buttons:
Code:
 (A) (B) (C)
(D) (E) (F)
Neo-Geo games have a curved 4-button layout:
Code:
 (B) (C) (D)
(A) ( ) ( )
Shmups simply use two buttons:
Code:
 (A) (B) ( )
( ) ( ) ( )
TGM1 and TAP use three:
Code:
 (A) (B) (C)
( ) ( ) ( )
And TGM3 also has hold:
Code:
 (A) (B) (C)
(D) ( ) ( )
There are also very few games that support more than 2 players. It might seem like a good idea to have a bazillion controls on a panel, but in the end you'll find yourself never touching all the extra ones you made. I strongly suggest sticking with the conventional 2L12B ("Two levers, twelve buttons") layout.

Again, 90% of games are 4:3. In the arcade world, there is very little incentive to go 16:9 unless you either only ever play games like SFIV and Blazblue, or if you like black bars or stretched content. Also keep input lag in mind; a consumer TV will process the video adding noticeable delay between pressing a button in game and seeing the result on screen. PC monitors are better suited, but beware that they don't support old school low resolutions (TGM and TAP fall into this category). When in doubt, just get a big ass professional CRT video monitor. These usually have RGB or component inputs and are going for rock-bottom prices now that the broadcasting industry is getting rid of them.

Of course, anything built from wood will never be as pretty as a real candy cabinet...

11. ### KevinDDR

However, you might still insist on playing. In that case, go and buy a Type X with Ti (Sophia Corp sells them), a JAMMA/JVS converter, and wire up an arcade stick of yourmy choice to it. There are plenty of wiring diagrams on the net for the JAMMA standard, but remember that you only need to connect the player controls and the power cables. You'll need an arcade power supply (or a hacked apart ATX PC power supply) for that. You'll then just need to connect the VGA output to your PC monitor and the line out audio to speakers of your choice. The JAMMA/JVS converter will enable you to connect the controls with the USB cable looking thingy.

Don't ever bother with building a MAME cabinet. No matter what you do, it will look like shit. It will also play like shit. This is the way MAME cabinets work. If you really want the arcade cabinet experience, you can always buy a New Astro City (or Astro City), Blast City, or any other Japanese "candy cabinet" which will directly hook up to the JAMMA/JVS box or even to the Type X itself.

12. ### Budster

My MAME cabinet doesn't play like shit...

(It sure looks it, though!)

13. ### Mederic

Sophia Corp doesn't list there prices...and I'm slightly confused on their ordering system...however, that place offers a great possibility...as my father is actually taking a business trip to japan for 6 months and shall be semi-close to that places building, giving me the opportunity to give him some money to purchase it. Woo hoo!

My next question then is where to find the JAMMA/JVS converter. I'm still very much interested in building my own arcade stick layout, and still intend to do 4 sticks, though thanks to the advice from mufunyo, I'm going to make all of the sticks six button...however, 2 outter sticks shall still be 8 directional, the 2 inner only 4.

Could you further explain why it "will look like shit" "no matter what you do"? Because I've seen some pretty IMPRESSIVE looking mame cabinets (like the one in that video for example). Aesthetic looks are to each their own, but anything can be made to look really nice if you put the time and effort into building it.

Last edited: 18 Sep 2010
14. ### Edoa.k.a. FSY

Sophia Corp is the export division of Tops-game which I linked earlier. There's also Fujita Communications, although if you really want the best prices, you may need to look at auction sites like Yahoo Auctions Japan.

16. ### Rosti LFC

For one, what looks good on YouTube does not necessarily look good in real life, when you can get right close to it and see poorly fitted joints and alignments, peeling paint jobs and poor surface finishes, and can actually get a good idea of what the thing feels like to play on, because if it's flimsy or has overlooked ergonomic faults, then it's going to suck even if it looks sexy as hell.

For two, there's the fact that though people with years of experience with DIY and specifically making these things can make some kick-ass stuff, it doesn't mean you can. Give me some paint and the inside of a church, and what I'll end up with will be a long, long fucking way from the Sistine chapel.

Though really, personally, I don't understand the concept of MAME arcade cabs whatsoever. It's so much cheaper and more convenient to just get a decent PC joystick (FSTE, VSHG, etc) and do that sort of thing on a regular computer used for regular stuff. I'd much rather rest my laptop on a table, sit on my sofa with my Sanwa VSHG on my lap and play MAME on that setup, than standing up on some awkward, badly designed wooden cabinet with American arcade parts.

Sure, it's not as ~authentic~ as playing on a proper cab, but then you're using MAME so it's never going to be authentic because MAME games will have input lag and bugs and other crap you don't get on the real thing. Plus if you're going to the trouble of building and wiring a cab, then most authentic arcade games aren't hugely expensive in comparison to the cost and effort that's gone into the cabinet (at least ones old enough to be in MAME aren't). Sure you've got to swap them in and out, but you're at least playing the actual real thing.

Probably worth noting that at Insert Coin 2009 I played on some of these things:
http://www.surface-tension.net/

They were really well made, and about as sexy as you're probably going to get in terms of a MAME cabinet, and I still really wasn't a fan of them. Really nice expensive-as-hell coffee tables, but horrible for playing games on. There were a few regular (professionally-built) MAME cabs as well, and they just felt really poor compared to playing the proper deal on the various arcade machines that were there.

If you want something to show to people and brag about, then sure, a MAME cab is fine, but if you want something you're actually going to play on, then I really wouldn't recommend it. Even muf's Ti setup, which is a monitor hooked up to the Ti box (along with audio and recording equipment), and then a mass of wires and half-finished custom joysticks (well, it was when I was there) was way better than any MAME cab I've ever laid fingers on.

17. ### Mederic

Fair enough, granted everything seems to point to wasn't built properly, which is fine, and to each their own...but none the less, I've carried us off topic...back onto finding a TGM 3 box!

18. ### Mederic

Anyone have any pictures of an ACTUAL TGM3 cabinet? Scoured google images for about an hour with no luck. The more I think on it the more I'd like to have my cabinet resemble the actual TGM3 cabinet in shape as closely as possible (hoping it's a decent design here).

Any pictures of it would be awesome, thanks!

19. ### KevinDDR

There's no such this as an "ACTUAL TGM3 cabinet". They work in any cabinet that uses the JAMMA or JVS standard, and they've never been sold in a specific cabinet. The game was intended to be played in Japanese candy cabs, though. Good luck building one of those!

20. ### Mederic

Well, that's why I couldn't find one xD Thanks for the heads up though, time to go down to the local dave and busters and decide on a design template ^-^