General stick discussion

Thread in 'Strategy' started by Ray Ayanami, 5 Dec 2009.

  1. m:)


    the sanwa's are easily switchable as well, you should grab one up.

    the issue is opening the box to rotate the plate.
  2. I went ahead and ordered a Seimitsu LS-32-01 for my FSTE, confident that I can replace the stick now.
  3. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    the trick of the ultimarc stuff is that you don't even need to open up to switch.
  4. Yeah, but who needs to switch from 4-way to 8-way that regularly that they'd sacrifice their joystick being good quality? Just only screw enough screws in to keep the plates on, rather than all of them, and it's a lot easier to open up.
  5. Well, it's not really a bad stick in the first place, easily being able to switch from 4 to 8-way is a bonus.
  6. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    ALso Ultimarc sells modded Sanwas (the J-Stick) that have rotatable restrictor plates, so in a cabinet you can just open the coin door and rotate.
  7. How is that different than just opening the control panel? On my arcade machine I can switch the guide in less than a minute.
  8. Muf


    Candy cabinets, contrary to woodies, have a very convenient (and screw-free) way of reaching the rear of the control panel; a simple lock and key and a hinge that tilts the whole panel upside down. And as colour_thief said, Sanwa sticks already have a rotatable restrictor. Advice from Rosti though, who frequently rotates his restrictor; get a spare restrictor plate and put it in 8-way (if your main one is in 4-way), and simply swap out the entire restrictor. If you rotate it too often it has a tendency to crack.
  9. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    Compare Ultimarcs "j-stick" to a standard sanwa. i think you'll find the design is different.

    THe restrictor rotates without removing screws. You just reach your hand in and twist it.
  10. I bought a "j-stick" a while back and it was a JLW, which requires unscrewing to switch. Switching a JLF, on the other hand, is just a matter of popping off the restrictor, clicking it into the new position, and snapping it back in.
  11. Edo

    Edo a.k.a. FSY

    Wow, that's really good advice! I wonder who came up with that originally. ;)

    Also, just echoing what Kitaru said: the Ultimarc J-Stick isn't just based on Sanwa designs, it actually is a Sanwa; it's a standard JLW, unmodified in any way. And the stuff they say about not needing a tool to switch between 4 and 8-way is complete nonsense, there are 4 screws which need to be undone.

    I had both a JLW and a JLF handy, and thought I'd carry out a quick test to see which was quicker to change.

    The results:
    The JLW took 60 seconds to loosen the 4 screws, rotate the restrictor and then tighten up again;
    The JLF took 32 seconds to pop off the restrictor and swap for another one which was already switched to the other orientation.

    Here are the other key differences between the JLW and JLF which aren't apparent from pictures:

    Firstly, the most noticeable difference is the spring tension. The tension in a JLF is very light, making it well suited for games requiring rapid direction changes and complex input sequences, e.g. fighting games and the TGM series. Almost completely at the other extreme, the tension in the JLW is very high; it's probably the stiffest of all high quality japanese arcade sticks. Therefore, the JLW is not suitable for TGM, as you'll most likely end up with a sore wrist and hand after prolonged play.

    Secondly, another difference is the diagonal engage when set to 4-way. You might wonder how important this is, so I'll give you a quote from
    Rest assured, diagonal engage is not a problem with TGM, but if you wish to use your stick with Pac-Man, you will most likely want to consider this factor.
    With the JLF, it is still very possible to hit the diagonals. It's difficult for me to measure it at all accurately, but it feels roughly like 45° ±4° will engage the diagonal. However, because of the shape of the restrictor, the stick is naturally much more likely to slide towards the cardinal directions than the diagonals, so the ±4° is nowhere near as bad as it sounds. The JLW on the other hand has virtually no diagonal engage, and is very well suited for Pac-Man.

    Thirdly, if durability is of concern to you, you may wish to take note of this. The JLF restrictor is actually very flimsy; as mentioned numerous times, rotating the restrictor too many times will cause the flexing tabs which retain the inner section to snap. Also, even if you use the advice given earlier and have one restrictor set permanently to 4-way, and another set permanently to 8-way, the restrictor may still snap after a while if your playstyle is particularly aggressive. On the other hand, the JLW restrictor is a single piece of plastic and will sustain much more of a beating before breaking. The most likely cause of failure is probably something like over-tightening the screws.

    As for the Ultimarc Mag-Stik Plus, I've never used one of these myself, and can't comment on the quality. Budster, if you have experience with any other joysticks, please do share your opinions on how the Mag-Stick Plus compares, I'd be very interested to hear.
  12. I don't fully agree with this, or at least I think you make the JLF restrictor sound more fragile than it actually is. Most of it is pretty tough, thick plastic. The only real weakpoint on the restrictor is in the thin plastic arms that push the central piece in place, and these don't actually carry any real stress when you're using the stick, just when you're switching the restrictor around. One of my arms is snapped off, and one is badly cracked, and these are from repeatedly moving between 8 and 4 way, and it's only when I'm doing that that I notice a difference. During normal use I can't really tell that there's anything wrong with the plastic arms, they take that little load.

    Sure, the JLF restrictor is inherently going to be weaker, but at the same time I doubt it'll break that often through normal use.
  13. I've never really had any problems with the Acme/Narrows JLW. Then again, I'm not really a top tier player and my playstyle has broken multiple restrictors so maybe I'm just violent enough for it to not matter.
  14. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    Perhaps the one who ordered it requested a stock stick?
  15. Okay, so I ordered a Seimitsu LS-32-02 and I try putting it in, using the same wiring harness. When I test out the stick, my PC isn't responding to it.

    What a load of bullshit. I blew $30 on a Seimitsu for nothing.
  16. Muf


    Are you sure you connected the 5-pin connector the right way around?
  17. Unfortunately, I don't have much experience with other joysticks, as this is the first build I've done.
    I based my decision to use it on reviews from this site.

    Edit: Fixed URL
    Last edited: 15 Jan 2010
  18. Edo

    Edo a.k.a. FSY

    I guess you're right, I may have given people the wrong impression there. But I do honestly know several people who have broken them in the space of a year or two, myself included. Admittedly, I cracked mine playing Psyvariar 2, which does involve a lot of gratuitous stick waggling. If you don't yank your stick about too much, you're likely to get a lot more mileage out of it.

    Yeah, I used a JLW too for several years, and also coped fine. But let's face it, not everyone here has big manly wrists like you and me, so I just thought I'd give people a fair warning. :D

    Sorry, you're right, I'd seen that "modification" before and must have dismissed it as being totally not worth it, and subsequently completely forgot about it. Basically it consists of leaving each of the screws unfastened such that the head doesn't sit in the recess designed for locking the restrictor in place (i.e. the restrictor is free to rotate), then taking up as much of the slack as possible with washers. Having seen it in action, there is so much slop in the system that it really isn't something you should bother with, especially considering it only takes a minute to properly fasten/unfasten the screws with a screwdriver.
  19. m:)


    ahh.. the key to getting more milage out of your stick is to not yank it around so much :awe:
  20. It works now.

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