TGM doesn't have literal double rotation. I favour rotations that look like they are physically possible. As in, you can take the piece and rotate it, given there are no obstructions. 90 degree rotations are ok for this. The problem with 180 is it bypasses the obstruction check that would take place given 2 consecutive rotations. A double rotation like tepples has in LJ is ok in my opinion, because the obstruction check is still there and conceivably the second rotation could fail. Even then though it's inelegant... What if 2 clockwise rotations would have succeeded where counterclockwise ones would fail? IRS is acceptable because the piece is magically teleporting into the well, not moving continuously. And I'm not convinced double rotation is saving you time, as long as you don't have to push the same button twice (ie. A,C instead of A,A in TGM). If you're having trouble then your timing needs work. (I know mine does! But on a good day I can consistently nail double rotations in Death. Feels so good.) I've got a gameplay idea for double rotations that I think is a really good compromise between our viewpoints though. Wait for CTRS.
IMO wallkicks cannot be discussed separate from rotation when talking about 20G AND "non-bottom-flat" rotation systems together. As can be seen here, the Sega/TGM rules are made so that the altitude of the bottom surface never changes regardless of orientation (excluding the I). On the other hand, rotation rules which doesn't do that - ie. SRS - have varying bottom altitudes for each orientation stance. This means that while TGM pieces can almost always rotate without kicking the floor, non-bottom-flat rules will require frequent intervention from floorkicks to even rotate at all when touching a surface. Also, the orientation of the piece in relation to the shape of the terrain at every given moment is a very vital element in TGM - so much that the claim that "initially rotating once, then after ARE rotating again, is essentially the same thing as double rotating" makes no sense in practice. TGM only counts either of the A or C buttons for counterclockwise rotation per frame.
To be fair, high speed Death and Shirase make very frequent use of double rotation with 0 or 1 sideways movements. Almost all placements are: DAS all the way. DAS all the way and return once. Stay in the middle. Move 1 space away from the middle. While there are more advanced options depending on the context, those are the basics which are used most often because they are reliable. The last 2 are what I was referring to above, and they frequently have a second rotation after ARE without any terrain-related complications.
They don't, unless they're applied repeatedly ("I'm ridin' spinners, they don't stop"). They came to my attention when Nachanca, one of the CPU opponents in The New Tetris for Nintendo 64, used them to keep the tetromino from locking, keep the garbage from arriving, and keep me from winning. Because they're pretty much the only difference between what LJ does and what DTET does. CT: If you describe your experimental rotation system in detail on the wiki, it's likely to get into LJ.
Sorry, but this is completely false. There is no way for a piece to spawn already rotated twice and once the piece has spawned the second rotation will fail if its surrounding don't allow it. You can't rotate twice in the same frame in TGM.
i wasn't saying there was a way to make the piece spawn twice, and when i said that, i was pretty much talking about sub 20g conditions, or 20g conditions where terrain would not obstruct. you and colour brought up how the surroundings would prevent that second rotation. this is what i was trying to talk about earlier by saying that many of those same conditions would fail for the first rotation as well if it wasn't for IRS. so why isn't IRS just as bad as double rotation? and don't say wall kicks!
I answered that above. If it makes you feel any better, I think Hold should only be allowed as part of IHS for the same reasons.
so then it would stand to reason that double rotation should be included so long as it's only initially double rotated?
Yeah, basically. It'd be interesting to play with A+C giving double rotation with IRS. It wouldn't feel like classic TGM but it wouldn't feel wrong either. Coping with the initial stances has to be a deliberate part of TGM's gameplay... Arika's Tetris with Card Captor Sakura allowed you to rotate twice during ARE, and yet later Arika Tetris games don't. Even though I'm used to it and it's rarely an issue any more, I don't think anyone would miss it. I don't see it changing the gameplay much overall.
(do we really need two separate dtet threads?) A+C giving double rotate IRS would be very interesting--or i could see the actual implementation being A clock, B c-clock, C double--but only during IRS with C going back to c-clock as soon is the piece is in play. this solves the clunky double tap IRS problem of sakura and would prevent the inevitable accidental single rotates that would show up when required to hit both keys. although whether or not this significantly alters the TGM gameplay is still up for debate. i'd say that it very well could have been included in Ti and no one would have complained--in fact aren't you able to select the double tap IRS in Ti? or am i making that up? at any rate, that breaks the "TGM elegance" where a single press of C functioning as a double rotate would not (or A+C, i'm sure someone would argue that the inconsistent nature of that suggestion would itself break that elegance) the whole limitation of 20g which is present in the original ARS (read: TGM1/TAP) as far as initial stances are concerned has already been as good as eliminated with the Ti wallkicks--specifically the T kick. are there any (hmm, don't really know what to call these--well traps? that's good)--are there any well traps left that would be significantly eased or even altered with the induction of a double rotate capable IRS? i think not. so all it would really do is prevent the inelegance that is the T-trap circumvention as well as making those moves more possible at shirase speeds. yes? so i'm in favor of it. but NOT after IRS---because inevitably we would have to start reworking the wallkicks to allow moves like that sham of an L that everyone keeps illustrating from dtet. because otherwise we'd have to have 2 double rotates as ct mentioned, for each direction. and that would be the realm of theoretical LJ type of games--not arika sequels and clones, or as i refer to them, "real" games .
A few moves would definitely be easier: Namely L, J , and T pieces travelling over 2 space wide gaps. Double rotate IRS would make this much more viable at high speeds, which would change the game a bit. In general though, even though it would change the dynamic of the game a little, I think it's still more elegant than the crazy nonsense wallkicks that DRS and SRS introduced. (Yeah, I know nobody uses T-spin triples anyways in a time attack but they're still inelegant.)
right, exactly, it would make them easier, but they are still possible with the Ti rotations, so all you are doing is making them smoother--as compared to making them possible in the first place which is where the real disputes about "breaking" of the game are to be had. the Ti moves are already considered acceptable so making them more elegant does nothing more than make them more elegant.
What about synchro moves though? They are technically possible, but extremely difficult. If you could use them reliably it would break 20g. Doubled IRS wouldn't be so dramatic, but you must admit part of the appeal of 20g is that your moves are restricted which forces you to be extra clever and use the options you do have resourcefully. It's hard to say how things would be affected... But I guess if the I wallkicks (which open a lot of possibilities) went down well this might as well.
i just realized that LJ has this functionality available... i mean, not the inconsistent function of the C but you can use C as a double rotate during IRS--now if only it had decent ARE options...
WARNING for people like me who was fallen in love with DTET.. The recovery on TGM2 is..HARD. DTET is too much permissive and lustful... I would have listened matt.. Now I must remove the very bad reflex I've accumulate with DTET.. For example, play with 3 next tetriminos at DTET makes the brain addicted of 3 tetriminos.. Play just after at tgm2 with only one tetriminos in next is hard..
The tetlag, right? Just be glad it's not NYET III that has no next tetromino and no wall kick and no lock delay.
HEEUU... I'm not very sure to understand..(I still must improve my english.. ) "tetlag" : means the "delay of adaptation"?
tetlag = tetris + jetlag jetlag = desynchronized sleep pattern from flying on a jet (or something like that)
It's a play on words, based on the word jetlag. http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&defl=en&q=define:Jetlag&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title Travelling from one place to another. vs Changing from one tetris game to another.
