I agree with CT. The learning curve of TGM is rather steep. A beginner player might make it past the first two sections, taking 5-6 minutes to get there, die when the gravity hits 1G, and never see 70% of the game. The easier modes (TA Normal/Ti Easy) don't really change much of that, and don't have much depth until you get hardcore. TGM needs something to hook the casual gamers, and imo neither Arika nor TTC have really found it yet. Edit: grammar
We're a small group, and we're extremely fickle. You can even subdivide us with rotation system, randomizer, 20G/0G, single player/versus, t-spins/no t-spins, etc etc. There's no one true hardcore tetris in all this. Even making everything customisable won't satisfying everyone because different choices will make quite objectively unfair versus matches and leaderboard comparisons. We're a hard market to please (see Tetris Zone) and we're small enough that when you do hit it the reward is underwhelming. I'm not commending the game design. We can all agree that the guideline includes some frustratingly lame design decisions. I'm saying they have made poor games and excellent business decisions. I don't see how this is news to anyone as Tetris has been quite lucrative. Are you guys honestly saying sales would increase noticeably if the hardcore were happy? Catering to the hardcore like Arika does is simply not something that is greatly profitable. It works because Mihara is hardcore (and by satisfying himself he can satisfy the fickle hardcore market) and Arika is sustained mostly by other game development (so the profitability is not critical). Also they've got to do it out of love because you can be damn sure they have lower profit margins on it than they do for a random anime license game.
I think it is worth mentioning that -- in some cases -- it isn't even remotely difficult to make decisions that are fair to both the casual and hardcore. One semi-recent and majorly baffling development was the the decision that Initial Rotation and Initial Hold somehow were not consistent with the guideline and needed to be removed. Their removal killed some simple optimizations for players of intermediate level and above while doing no greater service to new players. I'd be shocked if even one player found that the game was more comfortable to play after they removed on account of unexpected behavior when they were included. The only thing I can even imagine they were thinking was that they were somehow simplifying things for new players by making this change since they wouldn't necessarily know about them going in, but I don't imagine that new players have a particularly deep understanding of things like autorepeat or hold on their first play either. (I suppose hold is just the panic button when you first start using it anyhow. *shrug*) Anyway, I still find this change unfathomable and would love it if someone could rationalize it for me. (Also, I just wanted to say that I really wish they could make up their mind about kick t-spins. It makes it really hard to explain to people one simple, concrete definition of what a t-spin is when it seems to change slightly with every release. "Well it is this, unless you are playing game x, y, or z, in which case it is that except with this exception, or if you are playing game q, which has just an exception for triples..." Worse yet, they currently have changed their minds _within_ a release by allowing kick t-spins on tetrisfriends.com and not on Facebook.)
ttc changing things for the better is a pipedream what we need is a fan-game on par with what stepmania is to ddr simulation, that is to say: -slick graphics engine -robust theme system -easily modifiable gametypes among other things but i don't really feel like typing or detailing anything
Seriously, path to success: - Include Master and Easy modes. Easy should be easy, so that novices can win it with small amounts of practice. Have different levels of similar modes (Easy, Novice, Intermediate, Advanced, Master) with different speed curves and timing. 20G shouldn't even be introduced until Advanced, maybe Intermediate's ending. - Different scoring methods. Master is TGM3-style. Intermediate/Advanced can be level and time. Easy/Novice should be TGM3-easy style. - No infinite spin bullshit. Give linient lock delay, but not infinite spin or limited moves/rotations (would feel arbitrary) - 6-memory random generator + hold. - ARS and SRS rotation systems with the above restrictions. No T-spin triple bullshit, either. The point would be giving people several different options that would allow them to pick something comfortable and move up as they wanted, without being overly challenging. As it is, TTC games are stuck on "Too Fucking Simple". "Level" is a fancy way of saying "time wasted playing this".
To repeat my points, TTC can make a more solid and enjoyable product for everyone by making the game fairer and deeper. They can do this by putting their Q&A through the rigorous standards of hardcore players. Strengthening the games this way will not make them less appealing to casual players, but more appealing in the long run because they have more depth and are more stable (fairer). How does TTC strengthen the game this way? I labeled many examples in my first topic, as did other posters (note that I, for one, didn't even mention TGM-specific mechanics). By strengthening the game this way, in the long run Tetris customers will perceive the brand as higher quality. At least in my business, reputation is everything when it comes to sales.
What harm does it do them to make a game which is a hybrid of Tetris DS and also TGM? It's pretty obvious that by increasing the potential speed they could make multiplayer more interesting and develop more of a hard-core fanbase while making no difference to casuals. Adjustable DAS settings would pretty much kill most of the gripes of the hardcore fans while making no difference whatsoever to casual users who can just use a slower default setting if they want to. A proper matchmaking system which works based on rating would also vastly help. I personally don't think the online of Tetris DS was that bad. If things were kept as they are it wouldn't be the end of the world for me. What I think was the main let-down was the single player, and this is the main area I think TTC can improve upon. It wouldn't take much either. Generally games with good single player modes are seen as such because they have a broad range of difficulty settings. Yet Tetris games of late haven't had this. Maybe we've moved on since the days of the Game Boy and NES when games were harder and less appealing in general to casual players, but the current games are just unnecessarily easy. Look at something like the Neave clone of Tetris. Extremely popular because it's a browser-based version which is reasonably straightforward to play (being one of the first Google results helps too). It's not particularly refined graphically or in terms of the gameplay, but it's also not easy. It's difficult because it has shit DAS and is pretty similar to the Game Boy versions of Tetris, but people still play it. Difficulty doesn't directly put people off a game. What I think the single-player modes need is variation in difficulty. Most games have difficulty settings, so the player can adjust the difficulty of the game to suit their ability. They can practice on the easier modes so that they can play the harder modes. Yet with Tetris DS, once you get used to infinite-spin there's no real difficulty curve. The increase in speed stops giving an increase in difficulty. Have basic modes like Tetris DS marathon that the less able players will take a few hours to get good enough to beat, but there's no reason why they can't have a Hard/Death/Ultra/etc mode which challenges the more able players. Or even better, a range of Marathon modes of increasing difficulty. Sure, it'd probably be SRS and therefore I'd bitch a bit about it, but what is really stopping them from putting Ti Master and Shirase into their next game, on top of all the modes they're going to put in anyway?
The Tetris Company is NOT making sound business decisions. I very strongly disagree with colour_thief on this issue. Tetris Worlds was released to universally bad reviews, some going as far as saying it was "broken". Do you not think that sales suffered as a result? TTC did nothing to fix its guideline, Tetris Evolution was released to mediocre reviews at best. Did sales suffer, yet again? Sure, you might mention Tetris DS; but it's a sad state of affairs when it's not the underlying game, but the fluff that's wrapped around it - Mario, Link, Samus - that's selling. There's only so many ways you can wrap the same inferior product before gamers realise that it's just the same boring old Tetris that they've seen literally hundreds of times before and go and spend their money elsewhere. The Tetris Company could make MORE MONEY by altering its Guideline. Tetris will always make money, to some extent. Thousands of gamers realise that the game has flaws but they still buy it because they already like Tetris, and want a version to play on their latest console/mobile/whatever. But for gamers that don't already play Tetris, and aren't sure whether or not they'll like it, what reason do they have to invest in a game that is over two decades old, and everyone is now saying has significant flaws? There's a huge market that is as of yet untapped simply because TTC either refuse to (or simply does not know how to) make Tetris good enough to appeal to non-Tetris fans.
hardcore tetris players aren't enough to "claim rights" about "how tetris should be", it's sad but true
I disagree. I made a topic asking what everyone's favorite version of Tetris was on a major message board that starts with "G" and ends with "FAQs", and most responded with the NES or Game Boy versions. What major incentive could they possibly have to buy what they think will be the exact same game again on a new system?
i agree with what you're saying in terms of single player, but the wifi capabilities made the game a smart buy for tetris fans. but now wifi has been done, and i wouldn't see myself buying a TDS2 unless the guideline is revamped.
regarding tetris DS: i personally love the puzzle modes - touch mode and the classic puzzle mode. if those puzzle modes were not in the game, i think it would not be ok to sell it at as a full price game. tetris alone , even with multiplayer, is simply not enough to sell it at full price. it then would be more comparable to a game and price range like cubello for wii (wich is - by the way - a great game, though lacking more levels and overall variety. but the core game is fantastic)
Maybe it's a timezone thing, but I never had any problems with cheaters. I'd run into them, but it'd be on a very infrequent basis.
Just so we're clear, I'm not saying that that will do them harm. I'm saying there's no financial incentive to be better than mediocre.
Say for example that a gamer regards the NES version as the archetypal Tetris. It's possible that: a) They're such a big fan of Tetris that they still want a version - any version - to play on their mobile. b) Their NES is all packed away in the attic, and their X360 has taken pride of place next to their massive telly. They get a hankering for some Tetris, a game they've not played in years, and they buy Tetris Splash, because after all it's only a few dollars. c) (Which is what I think you're suggesting), they feel that modern Tetris games are all the same, it's not possible to improve upon the "definitive" NES version, and they flat out refuse to buy any modern Tetris product. But the point I was making is that most of the people that pay good money for Tetris are already fans. TTC is not working hard enough to entice gamers that have never played tetris before; they just keep on pushing out mediocre games to mediocre reviews.
