Arcade stick/computer ways of playing

Thread in 'Strategy' started by Qlex, 19 Feb 2012.

  1. Hey! I noticed there was a stick thread, but it was old and mostly technical.

    I tried the arcade stick for TGM2, which required a lot of sonic dropping (unlike TGM3 where I let the game go during the most part), and I kept messing up, even after some time to get me used to the whole thing. I asked the tenants of the arcade room, and they said the stick was a new, 4-way, Seimitsu stick, which makes it THE stick I would play the best on.

    Then I realized there were moves I should've done in certain circumstances. I thought zangi-moving was a lot more useful. Say you want to put a L piece on column 2-3 on a flat field, zangi-moving that one with : DAS left, zangi-move to the right instead of going DAS left, right, and then up down looked more appealing after some plays.

    The questions are : Do you have tricks like this one? Would you advise these? Are there moves that would be most practical using a stick, rather than a keyboard? Do you have an experience of switching controller types that were problematic like mine? I'd like to know!

    Thanks in advance.
  2. I wish I had time to elaborate, but yes, these are good input optimizations to learn.

    This space reserved for a better post when I have time to write.
  3. Alright, time to write a post that isn't entirely unhelpful. :s

    Seimitsu LS-32 might be a bit more comfortable if you're coming from a "keyboard style" of play. Although tap-tap moves are typically sub-optimal on all input devices, the keyboard is probably the one that allows you to most comfortably "get away with" such moves -- the act of tapping the key twice (though still a bit slow for most players) is straightforward compared to motion on a joystick, especially considering some sticks (such as the popular Sanwa JLF) may bounce back past neutral and into the opposite direction if not held properly. The LS-32, however, is a bit of a stiffer spring and a shorter throw, which makes it easier to issue the tapping motion in the first place and makes it less likely that the stick will bounce past neutral (even when released from full tilt).

    Even still, if you're used to using double tap inputs on keyboard, you might want to cut back on them when transitioning to stick. Personally, it was the misdrops that motivated me to clean up my finesse in areas like this, but the time attack benefit across all input devices is also a nice perk.

    As you've noticed, joysticks lend themselves well to circular motions, whereas a common keyboard "way of thinking" is to consider the droplock input much like a hard drop keypress that comes at the very end of an input string. Embrace the Zangi like you had not previously imagined. :) If you aren't already using such inputs, you also may want to buffer the start of Zangis from ARE when the piece is being placed at or very near the center -- hold Up, then just do Left/Right -> Down when the piece spawns, or whatever the rest of the input string may be.

    One of the other things I had trouble with when transitioning to stick was doing twists without locking the piece before the other rotation came out. There's not really a trick to it so much as just practicing so your hands get used to the new input device. Something about parallelizing that input (in terms of movement hand and rotation hand being all keys vs. buttons and lever) was tricky at first, but I got used to it with time.

    Other tricks... well, I really like arcade buttons. :) I feel like triple rotates and other little fiddly tricks come out even better when you have nice buttons. Most keyboard keys have a little bit of a throw to push through in comparison.

    Well, that was a bit of a ramble on my part, but hopefully that puts some info out there and gets the discussion started. :p If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. :)
  4. When I first switched to a stick, I kept screwing up on sonic drops. On a stick, you don't have the luxury of doing the near simultaneous two fingered UP-DOWN / DROP-LOCK motion that you can do on keyboard, so I had to adjust my play style until I got used to it, which meant switching from sonic drop to soft dropping much earlier in the game than I was used to.
  5. Hmm, it is helpful material! Thanks a lot, I don't see other questions at the moment. In fact, that explains some rotations I saw in some videos that looked unexplained to me at the time.

    Another problem I noticed is the absence of stiffness of the buttons. Sometimes I think of rotating so I move my finger a little bit, and then I realize it's not the best option, so I don't rotate. On a keyboard I can get away with that, but on a stick it does the rotation, which surprises me. But I think I can cope with that.

    Bottom line : I'm gonna practise with the stick and consider those buttons and zangi-moves
  6. I got the x aracade stick a while ago, and to my delight I found that I performed just as well in tgm3 world as when I used the keyboard. It was a while ago, so I didn't try classic yet (scary...), but now that I want to the default stick's up direction has 0 resistance and is unpractical to play tetris, so I've been using the keyboard. (although dodonpachi is fun). So I'm thinking of ordering a sanwa ball stick replacement so I can plunge into classic. Would that be acceptable hardware? And just to make sure I'm not missing out on something obvious, do the beginning levels of classic rule master really require sonic->lock while maybe holding down a direction AND one or more rotations? I've tried this, and my hands tire out really quickly after 1 game, about 3x faster than world rule.

    PS Did anyone figure out what the shooting star in tgm3 means? I searched but there were only guesses.
  7. JLF-TP-8YT is the stick most of us use.
    Early master game does require a constant up-down motion, but you'll find that Sanwa stick arc less stiff than your X-arcade, so it's not as tiring.
  8. Muf


    <nerd mode>JLF-TP-8Y would be the generic model. The letter at the end specifies the type of mounting, where T means a flat mounting plate like this, and S means a mounting plate like this.</nerd mode>
  9. Edo

    Edo a.k.a. FSY

    Actually, the generic model is just "JLF". There are at least 2 versions; the JLF-TP, where the P indicates that a PCB is used to collect together the grounds; and the JLF-TM, where the M indicates that it just has the bare microswitches. In fact, if you're replacing the stick in an X-Arcade, I'm pretty sure that it's the JLF-TM that you want.

    Although the JLF is probably the stick of choice for TGM, there are a couple of alternatives that you could consider:

    The Sanwa JLW is usally much cheaper than the JLF, but has a much heavier action (feels stiffer), which many find uncomfortable. The major plus point of the JLW however, is that in 4-way mode, it completely prevents activation of the diagonals. This is not necessary for TGM, but is absolutely essential for some games such as the original Pac-Man.

    Another alternative is the Seimitsu LS-32. If you're into a lot of shmups like Dodonpachi, the Seimitsu would be a perfectly good choice. It also has a pretty good 4-way mode for TGM, although you'll have to wear in the restrictor quite a bit.

    Another small tip if you eventually settle for the JLF: buy a spare restrictor, so that you can have one permanently set up in 4-way, and the other in 8-way. If you only have the one restrictor and you're constantly switching it back and forth between 4 and 8-way, it won't be long before it breaks.

    As for the shooting stars in TGM3, they're one of the few remaining mysteries. We know everything about the grading system, the promotional exams, the hole regret conditions, Sakura EX stage conditions, Easy mode scoring, Shirase level 1300+, the hidden Doubles mode...... but we know very little about the shooting stars.
  10. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    Hidden doubles mode?!?!

    This is the first I've heard about that.
  11. Muf


    At some point there was a planned doubles mode apparently, but it seems like it got scrapped very early on in development. There is no playfield graphic for it, and it has a ton of bugs.
  12. Ha! I can attest to this... When I got my stick, I broke the restrictor plate after a couple months. Too much switching to 8-way, to play Marvel vs. Capcom and Raiden. Good thing they're cheap to replace. Now I keep my square restrictor plate set to 4-way, and have an octagonal one for 8-way. Switching out restrictor plates is a major pain, though.
  13. Just a quick question : I got a full Sanwa Datel Stick, and the stick really is unresponsive. It doesn't look like it's 4 way, but how do I make it 4-way, do I have to buy a 4-way restrictor?
  14. Do you know what the actual joystick model inside a Datel is? Not all Sanwas are born equal.
  15. Edo

    Edo a.k.a. FSY

    If you're sure the stick is a Sanwa, then there's a 90% chance it's a JLF, with the stock restrictor.


    Switch it to 4-way like so: Notice that you actually have to remove the entire restrictor in order to do this. (Just push the 4 black tabs in 2 at a time). Also, note what I said previously:

    The other common Sanwa stick is the JLW, and it should be totally obvious how to switch it to 4-way just from looking at it. You'll need a screwdriver though...


    (Images taken from
  16. Muf


    Apparently this is what a Datel stick looks like on the inside:


  17. Yeah I had to check the inside of the stick twice, and hopefully the sanwa stuff would make up for it, since I got everything for 60€ on ebay, but the buttons seem to be a bit too used. However, it's JLF and now that I switched the restrictor I can do something much better with it. Thanks!
  18. K


    yup the stick i brough to the meeting was exactly the same before i replace it with sanwa stick and button. hopefuly it's not a big deal if want to DIY !

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