2014 Clone Drama

Thread in 'Discussion' started by colour_thief, 2 May 2014.

  1. Hey, could someone translate/consolidate the sequence of tweets into a convenient thread here? It's hard to follow what's going on when one's time is already saturated by working a job, living, and playing officially licensed Tetris games.
  2. Nothing new under the sun. Basically, one guy from Hardrop sent a tweet to Mihara with a random clone link, Mihara got pissed off and yelled he will never make a new TGM you clone users and loosers, period.

    Alex wrote a lot of nice tweets, but Mihara doesn't speak english :p.
    Kevin sent a sweet tweet, Mihara just apologized for not being able to convince foreign publishers to sell a new TGM because of clone users. My opinion, he didn't think a word of his apologies, but well, he did say sorry, so...

    Aren't we already happy enough with 3 TGM ? :p
  3. Just one add from what I've seen : Mihara apparently sent his first tweet saying that "winner don't play emulator and never clone"

    for the rest I have no idea what's going on
  4. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    From what I gather, Mihara believed the prohibition gesture didn't go far enough. He believed that because members still kept their youtube videos, the prohibition gesture was insincere, and got offended.

    In other words, the clone discussion ban was not enough of an attempt to put the cat back in the bag to satisfy him... He called out members for keeping their youtube videos even as they supported the clone ban.

    A most unfortunate situation, because things unrelated to clones stopped releases of TGM1 and TAP. TTC definitely had a hand in the situation as well, by shutting out arcade play from the tetris guideline as well.

    Henk pretty much told me that TGM was the perfect tetris game, but it didn't really make money. And that's the crux of the issue. By appealing to the casual crowd, TTC makes a profit. Mobile phone tetris is what really rakes in the cash for them. Only the japanese arcade scene was profitable enough for them to release TGM for.

    That said. I think it IS still possible for a release to be profitable. What would an official release have over clones? Well, a fair amount, actually.

    1) Accuracy. :)
    2) online leaderboards and replay storing in the cloud. Jewelry Master for PC already has this, btw.
    3) play on modern consoles and portable consoles.
    4) possible decent multiplayer and matchmaking, again for consoles.

    Mihara and oversees publishers believe people won't buy TGM because they have clones. For us to get official TGM, they must be convinced otherwise.

    TGM is the perfect fusion of oldschool tetris and new tetris, and many people who grew up with old school tetris games would probably be willing to buy it if they had a demo. And TGM3 (and 4) include world rotation for those who are having trouble with weaning themselves off TTC's kool aid. :)
  5. When did Henk tell you that? He's right, and a puzzle game should appeal to as broad an audience as possible, so I'm not mad at him at all. I'm just dissapointed that FB tetris was such a step back from TF. It's a real shame considering that for a good 6 months it was one of the top FB games. TF really shows how with just a few extra settings it can be a competitive mp game. It wouldn't be as simple to make a good single player game, since a lot would go against the guidelines.

    What does arika expect us to do? Not ever play their games unless we travel to japan? I don't know what type of relationship arcade goers have with operators in japan, but in the us most are chains with the same 30 dumb downed games and there are a ton less independent operators than there were even 10 years ago. Does he understand that we don't have any recourse?

    Usually when people pirate a popular anime or movie or music enough from japan that leads to an official release later. Is there some type of precedent when people didn't play an aracde game from japan because people played clones beforehand?

    Actually, is there any precedent of a lot of demand for a japanese aracde game leading to a franchise to import it?
  6. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    In email correspondence i had with the guy. Truth is, he's not a bad guy, but he's okay with "selling out" to increase the audience, and i, well, don't like that as much. (chuckle)

    Again we have the money issue. They really want you to give them money, so they have to provide some encouragement.
    He perfectly well understands that arcades are pretty much dead here in the US, and that digital download is where it's at now, but he still needs to make back the cost of the license. He's not willing to take a loss to get TGM to the west. it's that simple. Yeah you are supposed to buy the board or come to Japan, apparently. And because TGM single player goes so much against the guideline, it's a really hard sell, and needs to be hidden from the casuals. Pretty much anyone who likes "broken tetris" won't bother, and that's considerably more than half of all tetris players.
    Can't say there is. But arcades are pretty much dead here in the USA. There isn't one anywhere where I live now, so that's not relevant.

    Also fansubs often led to official subs and dubs. but in this case, the customer base is ethical, and willing to make the fansubs vanish when an official release comes out. Not many game players have the same sense of ethics that guarantee this works... They won't buy a release after beating a fan translated ROM.. Why should they? they beat the game. With anime we get better quality subs, so there is value in the official release compared to the fansub. For video games, that's a much harder proposition.
    Actually, yes there is. The entire Bemani franchise was big, and imported straight out of Japan. DDR in particular got big here.

    But again, arcades are dying here. It would need to go straight to console here in the states to make any profit at all. If it were possible for him to self publish on PSN and Xbox Live without having to go through TTC, a profit would probably be very easy to realize. Self publishing is doable, but dodging TTC is not.
  7. orz


    I'm glad that xenophobic narcissist isn't making another TGM game
  8. Why? Even though he's a jerk, he makes fun games.
  9. Maybe someone should send mihara Kan's videos at the stunfest with all the crowd shouting like mad when he beats the invisible mode :)
  10. yeah, kinda :)
  11. Kinda, useless :p
  12. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    Seems someone tweeted him the awesome games TGM replay, and he liked it.

    Also, i might be misunderstanding, but he seems to be considering the idea of kickstarter to prove demand for TGM in the west?


    at least this is what my machine translate seems to suggest.
  13. Nope, just saying it costs much too money to be realistic.
  14. Oh... So you are sure he does not want anything related with it to be kick started?
  15. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    I'd trust the person who can speak japanese much more then i'd trust any machine translation of what he says.

    If someone who actually knows japanese says he's just being sarcastic, he's probably just being sarcastic...

    Besides, if he was serious about kickstarting TGM funding, it would already be on kickstarter since the cost to set up a kickstarter is zero, and i can't seem to find it.
  16. Come on man, I'm just trying to be nice. As a beginner Japanese speaker, I don't see the irony in his post, and therefore I wanted Nico-san to explain a bit more about what was happening. Am I so wrong to ask such a question?

    nikofuromutoukyou-san, what do you say?
  17. I received a lot a messages from foreigners, asking me to do something with kickstart for TGM, and saying they support me. But, firstly, it's a foreign system I don't undersand, then the fact is it's not only a money problem, and lastly it does cost a bunch a money, you know ? More than 6 months to settle a mother board game, and the only one which made benefits in the past was TAP.
  18. I see. Thanks a bunch for the info updates by the way nicofromtokyo, much appreciated :)
  19. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    Well i'm sure someone could explain kickstarter to him, but he's right about the problems.

    1) License is really expensive.
    2) TGM is not Guideline compliant, and that's an issue. (not only a money problem)
    3) arcade development isn't cheap and takes 6 months and only TGM2 actually made money.

    That said, i think he may have misunderstood. We'd want a PC/Xbox 360/Xbox One/PS3/PS4/3DS/Vita package, either a collection or new product. (well probably not ALL of them, but those are the main reasonable platforms i can think of.

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