tetrisconcept no longer condones tetris clones

Effective immediately, tetrisconcept no longer condones tetris clones. Clone related threads are locked and future cloning activities are prohibited. Though this must certainly come as a shock, please try to put the continuation of the TGM series above any of your personal desires.

Some of you may think that our western community, far removed from Japan where TGM is actually released, has no significant impact on the financial viability of TGM as an ongoing series. However, in today's global village that is the internet, what's ours is theirs and theirs is ours. The internet has no borders.

Though the creation of non-copyright-infringing clones is probably legal, we urge cloners to consider the ethical and practical ramifications of their work. What may seem like an innocent pet project can turn into a selfish indulgence that ruins everyone's chance of a new TGM game. Original, refined tetris games with high production values will be a thing of the past if the business risks remain too great because of clones.

To the cloners that have found a home at tetrisconcept over the years, we thank you for your contributions. We wish you well and look forward to any original games you may produce in the future. May your talents not go wasted.

-the tetrisconcept administration team

 

figured this would happen sooner or later

 

You know how I feel about this, but it's your choice. You guys set the rules.

 

This is how you repay noname and reporter and others for everything they did for you? Did mihara have ever did something for TC? Will he ever do something? Will tgm4 credits-roll say "thanks tc.net for making release of this game possible" and follow it with nicknames of clone banning supporters? will he send every tc member arcade machine with tgm4?

 

You don't need recognition always to know that you did the right thing, do you?

 

Alright, I'm going to have a shot at showing why this is completely insane.

Give me a break. As if the TGM series would have value even if the world were otherwise completely empty. As if the TGM series stood outside or above the people involved in it. We are the ones who give TGM value. Do not let CT turn that truth upside into a falsehood. What he really wants to say, I guess, is that he desires to play TGM4, and that others have the chance to play. The problem is his coded expression provides him cover to harm and punish the wrong people.

It's the developers who are harmed. CT now forbids any discussion on TC about clones. Got it. But why punish them?

Fair enough. It's clear TC has affected Mihara. What we don't have here, and badly need, is a discussion about Mihara's convictions. We need a discussion about the reasons why we have affected him. If they are good reasons, then CT is in the right. If, as I suspect, they are insane reasons, we have no cause for accord.

OK, and here they are. 1) A group of friends code and have fun. 2) An insane Japanese man disapproves of their fun, and 3) because of this, the man will prevent others from playing TGM4. I think it's pretty clear that the problem with this causal chain is not the first link, but the second.

Patently false. But good try asserting it as a truth! This really bothers me, and should bother anyone technically savvy enough to be here. First of all, it does not follow from TGM4's cancellation that there will be no future games. How can you preclude the possible existence TGM5, a rival company emerging, or Nullpo's acquisition by Valve? While you clearly favor a Tetris monopoly, you do not have a monopoly on the future. Secondly, does Firefox or Chromium or the Linux kernel have high enough production values for you? High quality refined products can and will be created in non propriety environments.

I think we've seen how cynical this whole post is, and the ending is no exception. Knife the developers in the back and wish them a good day. Thank you indeed. CT has done something wrong so that he can get what he wants. He wants people to play TGM4. Fine in itself, but you shouldn't hurt the wrong people to get what you want. We need to discuss the real problem or we'll never be rid of it (him).

 

You don't get my point. You (TC) reject true love from clonemakers to go after somebody who dont give a shit about you. That's not very smart.

 

This is total bullshit.

You're trying to kill the fun for all Tetris loving people, just so that TTC and Arika can make a few more bucks.

That Tetris was DISCOVERED in 1985 shouldn't be credited to Pajitnov's genius. It was bound to happen anyway - it was just a matter of computers being able to render the graphics necessary. Why should this one man (or his handlers) be let to put a chokehold on all of the worlds puzzle loving players?

If people can make good clones for free, while still holding regular jobs, what's wrong with that? I used to code stuff for the Amiga, and it was all for fun, just like how I write music these days. I don't demand to get payed, having an audience is gratification enough.

This is just wrong, on so many levels. And it will probably kill this forum.

So where do we move now? Harddrop?

 

I've always thought TGM had one of the most level-headed Western fanbases.
I believe that era has come to an end.

 

Since you make a Tetris game in copying exactely the timing and scoring values of a licensed game, that is pure plagia, and it doesn't apply only for Tetris.

 

yeah. i see this.
intel cancels new processor because amd keep making chips that are 100% compatibile.
intel fans decide to ban talking about amd chips on www.tomshardware.com to save the world.

steave ballmer write on his blog that microsoft cancels new windows release, because linux distribution do pretty much the same for free.
microsoft fans decide to ban linux talk on osnews.com to save the world.

 

That's because TGM's timing and scoring works very well.

We should be thankful for Mihara's taste in Tetris, but our gratitude should not prevent us from playing the game. Mihara and his team have been payed (they probably make more than me) for their work in bringing out the TGM series, but should we have to pay them forever? A painter get's paid for painting a picture (if someone is prepared to pay for it ofcourse), but should they be paid everytime someone looks at their picture? Should an electrician be paid everytime someone flicks the switches they mounted?

Arika has done their work, and it has been financed by the fans. What is the problem here? If they were to release TGM4 on any of the major consoles, we'd surely buy both the console and the game.

I'm gobsmacked by the corporatism on this site. Alot of you guys really are sheep.

 

Well, correct me if I'm wrong but... He did create tetrisconcept by creating the Tetris Grand Master series ?
And he did create a big part of the cloning community by creating the very same series. I'm not sure people would have spent so many time creating tetris clones if it wasn't for the tgm series. I mean, any other tetris games can be easily played on their original system for like a couple of bucks only whereas tgm needs at least a couple of hundreds of bucks (if not more than a thousand) which pushes the motivation up
In the end, Mihara getting on war after the clones is only a matter of money. But don't forget that basically, creating the clones was also a matter of money...
Personnally, I don't care about tgm4 being released or not since I still didn't finished with tgm1 (my goal being sub 10min gm) nor tgm2 and even didn't started with tgm3. But I do care about tetris being only some shitty TTC rules crappy games or being the true intellectual challenge Mihara permitted with the tgm series.
So if the guy cries like a baby that he won't do TGM anymore if they are still clones, I don't care if he's right or wrong or if it's moral, ethical or wathever. Only thing I know is the guy decides, is right from a legal point of view (dura lex sed lex) so I obey and that's all.

 

It really does sound like you are playing into TTC's hand. Is that what you really want to do?

I'm 99% sure the whole "clones" thing preventing TGM4's release is bullshit, anyway. Banning discussion of clones is not going to get TGM4 released.

edit: even if somehow you could get rid of the existence of clones that will not get TGM4 released either

 

As diplomatic as your announcement reads, this seems like too extreme a measure to pay respect to Arika and the TGM series. Sure, a large subset of us are here because of TGM; but I'm sure the majority of that subset has never laid hands on a TGM cab (at least not as regularly as we would like). What are we here to discuss then, and who would we be fooling talking about a game that we haven't actually played? Is this ultimately about isolating the haves from the have-nots, or are we just committing forum-seppuku here?

All I can see come out of this is the dividing of an already-fragmented community even further. It is a shame because, as someone who posted above mentioned, this community seems fairly intelligent and level-headed.

 

This site (and all the activity which comes along) has probably done the best advertising possible for TGM outside Japan. That's sad he didn't realize...

 

Lol, not to play the veteran member card, but who the fuck are you to be saying crap like that, seriously?

Everything report and noname did for us? Are we that arrogant now to think that the likes of Nullpo and Texmaster were created solely for the enjoyment of TC? Nullpo at the very least has it's own website now, and it'd have no issues with autonomy from TC.

Nullpomino and Texmaster would not exist without TGM, so indirectly Mihara has done more for this community than anyone making a clone ever done. And that's the point.

Any mention of Mihara is fairly wide of the mark anyway. He can't release TGM4 without permission from TTC. If they don't let him do it, it's out of his hands unless he wants to fight a lawsuit, and I doubt Arika have the money for that, plus being sued and taken to court is a pretty huge deal in Japan socially. He makes it fairly clear on his blog without directly saying so that it's TTC that have screwed the release up, and that even if they had let it be released then TTC's demands on gameplay wouldn't have made it the game he wanted it to be anyway.

Colour_thief is quite clearly making the point that original fan-made games are fine. He even put it in fucking italics. If there's some sort of Nullpomino release that removes all the TGM cloning and presumably just features the original modes like Phantom Mania and Poochy's stuff. Maybe now we can see some proper creative development and interesting modes and gameplay tweaks without having to wait for them to come from Arika first. Perhaps an equivalent of Ti Master mode but without the fairly broken rating system...

Frankly all you guys complaining are being fucking retards. TGM, TAP and Ti are all cloned as accurately as they're probably ever going to be. The clones already exist for current TGM games, and there is no need whatsoever to push further development for them. If you want to play them, then go do so. This ban ain't stopping you. What is clear is that we're not getting a TGM4, and might never get another TGM game again, and I'm perfectly happy with sacrificing clones being openly discussed on the forum to raise the possibility that it might happen again. If you actually would like new material to be around to be cloned, then ironically enough this is the only decision that's likely to get anywhere.

Of course this is a fucking sacrifice, and it's playing into the hands of TTC, but you're an absolute idiot if you think any other alternative will get us anything we want. Petitions? Protests? All a total waste of time. TTC hold the license and the money to pay lawyers to defend it. They hold all the cards, and we've got absolutely jack-shit to threaten them with. If you think we've got any sort of bargaining power over TTC then you're seriously misguided about how the world of business works. Tetris DS sold over 2,000,000 copies. Even if we boycotted all TTC tetris games in favour of clones, we'd barely make a dent in their finances because we're a few dozen people in the face of millions of casual Tetris players.

The only way we could properly hurt TTC would be to push clones far enough that they file a lawsuit, and then to win the lawsuit, and good luck finding the hundreds of thousands of dollars that you'd need to do that. Other than that, we have no bargaining power whatsoever, so for any hope that they might do what we want, we've got absolutely no option other than to do what they want, and any other view of the situation is completely unrealistic.

My main question is where emulation stands in all of this. Fan-made clones fine, but what about MAME and cracked versions of Ti? Sure, on one hand they're more illegal, but they're providing the Genuine TGM Experience™, so how does that one work?

 

So how do I evangelize TGM ? Should I tell people to openly pirate it ?