Thread in 'Discussion' started by thomasgx1, 5 Mar 2008.

  1. thomasgx1

    thomasgx1 Unregistered

    When I play vs against the computer I usually play level 4, where I win about 80% of the games. I pretty much use the same technique of stacking as quickly and flat as possible and hitting tetris' over and over, if possible trying to get them back to back in a row. Then after about 4/5 i'll go low for a bit clearing junk then finish with some more b2b tetris.

    On vs level 5 I get raped. I win about 15-20% at most. Any time I get within about 4/5 blocks near the top - wham I lose. What do the top players here win, i.e what kinda % (100?!?!).

    Any tips?

    (I can't really tspin yet)
  2. tepples

    tepples Lockjaw developer

    How fast can you get seven tetrises in "line clear" mode? Use a stopwatch.

    DIGITAL Unregistered

    The strongest players will be able to win 90%+ consistently. The highest win streak I've known is somewhere in the 60s or 70s (I forgot the specific amount).

    There's no secret formula to win 100% of the time. In general, you'll want to send a lot of garbage in a short amount of time, referred to as a garbage spike. The CPU tends to stagger in the face of overwhelming garbage. T-Spins, in combination with tetrises, are a must. The real secret is to be able to improvise. When things don't go as planned, adaptive solutions are what determine the results, especially because CPU 5 can be highly inconsistent.
  4. Muf


    CPU 5 has a huge achilles heel that it is very prone to stack over garbage instead of drilling down. Use this to your advantage by breaking up the garbage with doubles and triples, and when the CPU has started stacking over it, attack with T-spins and tetrises to get it to top out. Also, I've found that playing very slowly in the beginning is rewarded with a long delay before the first garbage appears, which you can then quickly send back to the CPU while your own stack stays low.
  5. "Use this to your advantage by breaking up the garbage with doubles and triples."

    Since when do doubles and triples break up garbage in TDS?
  6. Muf


    Doesn't that increase chances of the hole switching sides? I wasn't sure so I asked in #arika, and got confirmation. I also couldn't find any detailed information on the wiki. I'm sorry if I posted false or misleading information.
  7. There was some research into it when the game was still "hip," but to may knowledge there's no real evidence saying anything contributes to a "column switch."
  8. Maybe not directly.. but if you send 4 lines the holes always end up in the same column, no? So if you sen two doubles instead of a tetris then at least there's a possibility of it breaking up the garbage.
  9. "Maybe not directly.. but if you send 4 lines the holes always end up in the same column, no?"

    not that i know of.

    DIGITAL Unregistered

    Yeah, I'm sure this theory was never confirmed.
  11. In fact, it's definitely not true. Test against the computer, and clear only doesn't take long to see that the holes don't always line up.

    For what it's worth, I did a few rounds of testing with only tetrises and with only doubles, and found the garbage gap distribution to be roughly the same both times. They were fairly small-scale tests, though.
  12. I stand corrected.
  13. My win percentage (guessing) is about 75%. I don't know. I only ever really played the Level 5 CPU to warm-up. When I'm experimenting and practising T-spins I usually go for Level 4.

    Generally, I find that the computer will be more likely to lose the longer the games go on. Play a bit more defensively, and concentrate on keeping your stack low.

    Sending btb Tetrises is completely and utterly useless unless the second Tetris will kill your opponent. Don't bother stacking high up the screen most of the time. It's better to keep your stack low and manageable, and with less risk. Keep monitoring your opponent's screen. Not a long look, just enough to gather roughly how high up they are, and maybe if they're going to be sending reasonable amounts of garbage any time soon.

    If they're about to clear down, stay low. Same for if they're near the bottom.

    If they're right near the top, try and clear something quickly to finish them off.

    If they're within 2 Tetrises of dying (so between 1/2 to 3/4 up the screen), then build up and send two Tetrises as quickly as they can.

    Monitoring your opponent, both against the CPU and online is important. It allows you to plan ahead with a bit more strategy. If you know you're not likely to get anything substantial for a while, because their stack is messed up, or they're stuck clearing singles, then you can afford to build up a little more, and perhaps go for a more complex t-spin setup than the usual one of a t-spin double (which you should make every effort to learn and practice until they become second nature). If it looks like they could be sending a fair amount of garbage at any point (about halfway or more up the screen, with a single Tetris column free), then you want to make sure you get the fuck down the screen and prepare for it.

    It might be hard at first, but after a while it become second nature to glance at your opponent's playing field(s) every 20~30 seconds, just to prepare, and you can pick up a lot of useful information from just quickly casting your eyes up.
  14. jujube

    jujube Unregistered

    Q is way better than TDS.

    err, nevermind.

    this is good advice, and i think it matters even more when you're online. after playing lv5 long enough you can develop a style that just wins, and you do your thing. when you're online the players are unpredictable so they have to be watched somewhat.
  15. i don't really understand why one would need to monitor his or her opponent. i think one should always try to downstack whenever possible and should go for t-spin doubles when able. if anything, i think looking outside your field could distract your focus and become counterproductive. though, sometimes if your opponent is near block out, it's better to make "sending x lines asap" top priority so long as you're not at the top as well.

    neat feature: if your opponent has a block filling row sixteen or higher, something alerts you in some way.

  16. I really don't think the drop in speed is that much. It's really only directing your gaze for an instant. If you're playing a game like Tetris DS, with slow DAS and long ARE and line clear delay, then I'd bet the decrease in speed would hardly even be noticeable. I'll admit on TNET fastpure, I don't look at my opponents screens too much, as I'm usually focusing too much on my own.

    But on Tetris DS, I've watched people lose so many games because they've not just finished someone off with a double or a triple, but instead gone for a Tetris and given their opponent crucial seconds to recover and eventually win.
  17. tepples

    tepples Lockjaw developer

    Some of the 8- and 16-bit games on Nintendo had something like this: the music would speed up when one player approached the ceiling. So does TDS Push.
  18. matchbow

    matchbow Unregistered

    other than music though, is there anything that alerts you?
  19. massi4h

    massi4h Unregistered

    I think looking at your opponents screen is a very important part of TDS. When making a line clear or soft dropping you normally can take a good quick glance at where abouts your opponent is at. If I see them at the near top I'll try and send whatever I can, doubles, triples or TSS's. And more importantly when you're getting close to the top you gotta cancel out their garbage as much as possible which means you need to be watching how they're set up, if they got an I block coming, etc. You need peripheral vision to also see the next 6 blocks coming as well.

    @ the OP: tbh CPU 5 isn't that hard for me. I have at least a 90% win rate and when I am playing with complete speed and focus most of the games end in less than 15 seconds (less than 30 when I'm trying to not t-spin). First of all, speed is really important imo, which there are many ways for you to test/improve that. Flat-stacking and non overstacking is very important and generally try to stay as low as possible (normally I stack as high as possible until I feel I should btb tetris or unleash my I block).

    Of course learning basic t-spins will help and being able to recognise them and stuff. But if you wanna be the best you can you must practise everything.

    My post is pretty generic, but maybe you could make some videos and get people here to critique them or something.
  20. Oh that's true. I didn't think about looking during the outrageously long line clears.

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