TDS systems guide

Thread in 'Discussion' started by tepples, 18 May 2006.

  1. tepples

    tepples Lockjaw developer

    Could someone post a complete description, in English, of how SRS works? The Tetris DS systems guide only tells what happens when I press the B button, with a vague "The unseen right turn positions oppositely copy left turn positions" for the A button. And what does "* No change for T" mean?


    Is ARS wall kick any simpler?
     
  2. ARS is dead simple, so I'll explain that.




    Code:
    -------- --------
    -------- --[][]--
    --[][][] ----[]--
    --[]---- ----[]--
    -------- --------
    
    There's a basic, free falling rotation pictured above.
    Now, let's say you can't rotate because a block is in the way.
    First, the game tries to place the piece in the same spot, except to the right one space.

    Code:
    -------- --------
    -------- ----[][]
    --[][][] ------[]
    --[]><-- ----><[]
    ><><><>< ><><><><
    
    Now, if there's a block preventing movement one space to the right, it'll try one space to the left:

    Code:
    -------- --------
    -------- [][]----
    --[][][] --[]---
    --[]><>< --[]><><
    ><><><>< ><><><><
    
    That's how wallkicks work in a nutshell. The game will try default, then right, then left, trying to rotate a piece. There are some restrictions (eg. the I piece doesn't get a wallkick) and some additions in TGM3 (vertical kick for the I and T pieces) but it really is simple.



    For SRS, take similar concepts to the above... add in the dual axis... have 1 million possible alternate placements instead of 2... and there you have it. The freefall rotations in SRS are really weird (chaging the height of a piece) and this interacts with SRS's wallkick to provide truly strange and unexpected rotations. If I rotate in a tight spot, more often then naught my piece goes ABOVE EVERYTHING, ridiculously, instead of in the spot. I guess you learn to avoid these situations with practice, but I get a huge WTF reaction every time it happens.
     
  3. Code:
    1(1) No change
    1(2) Position one right
    1(3) Position one right and one up
    1(4) Position two down *
    1(5) Position one right and two down
    
    this is what ct's talking about. 1(1) is normal position, if something's in the way, it'll position from 1(2) to 1(5), in that priority. The more restrictions, the further down it goes, and if none of those positions fit, it does not rotate. Think of "oppositely copy" as like a mirror. Whatever happens for B will be a mirror image for A.


    btw, in this example, 1(5) makes t-spin triples possible.


    also, the I's system is a rough sketch I have yet to work on again, in case anyone wants to figure it out (the rest is solid, thanks to koryan).
     
  4. tepples

    tepples Lockjaw developer

    I understood this part. But I didn't understand the "oppositely copy" as a mirror; the rotations from 1 to 2 should mirror the rotations from 3 to 2, but they don't as described in the document. Nor did I understand what the * represents.


    That said, I'm making a wiki page about ARS, citing this topic.


    EDIT: [[Arika Rotation System]]
     
  5. Actually, TGM players are easily the most active wiki contributors... You should probably leave it to us. I mean, it won't hurt anything to start it now, but I glossed over important details. And, my example was troublesome in a way only a TGM player would know... [​IMG] Quite poorly chosen really, even if it did convey the concept.


    (My example is actually impossible, as it is forbidden in the game. There are a couple other exeptions too. Wallkick applies in general, but then it was removed from specific transitions wherever Arika felt like it.)


    The 5 things Nick listed are what SRS tries for when you rotate clockwise. Rotating counter clockwise will be like:


    -default

    -one space left

    -up and left one space

    -two spaces down

    -onie left and 2 down


    That's what he means.
     
  6. tepples

    tepples Lockjaw developer

    The earlier list was for rotating counter-clockwise from 0 to 1. Is this for rotating from 2 to 1 or for rotating from 0 to 3?
     
  7. don't pay attention to ct. edit the wiki all you want. [​IMG]
     
  8. Well, for starters, even the name ARS isn't really accurate. Here's a rough historical timeline:


    -Sega Tetris (not TGM, but it's still the birth of the rotation system)

    -TGM, TGM2, Sakura Tetris (added wallkicks)

    -TGM3 (added vertical wallkicks for T and I pieces)


    Then things get complicated. TGM-ACE came out, and it originally let you choose from:


    -SRS

    -ARS


    Where ARS is some frankenstein combination of SRS and TGM3's "classic" rotation. Several Xbox Live updates later, another option was added:


    -ARS2 (flipped the function of Up and Down)


    This was closer to TGM3 but still a ways off.


    ARS here is referring to more then rotations and initial stances. It also denotes piece colours and textures, and lockdown timer reset behaviour, as well as vertical direction presses and the condition of death. As you can see, 'ARS' has never really meant the TGM style of rotation. TGM3 itself calls SRS "Worlds" and the Sega-derived rotation "Classic". Which doesn't really fit as a robust term outside that game unfortunately. [​IMG]

    What we need is a wiki entry called "TGM rotation" or somesuch, with the above explained better and with more details and pictures. An ARS entry at this point really wouldn't work... We need a TGM player to make it.


    At least, I think that's a reasonable reason to hold back?


    For reference, the popular TGM clone Heboris (with update patches) allows you to choose from a bunch of rotations:


    TGM (TGM games before TGM3)

    Ti (TGM3 style)

    WORLD (SRS)

    WORLD2 (SRS... but different somehow? TDS possibly?)


    So SRS is also ambiguous. Also note that they ignored all the weird TGMA variations that carried the ARS name.


    If you want, maybe do an entry on wallkicks. But nothing about a specific rotation system because as you can tell there's a lot of crap to wade through to get it right.
     
  9. tepples

    tepples Lockjaw developer

    Moved.

    Wall kicks vary per rotation system. I may start a comprehensive article about wall kicks once I write a graphical wall kick editor.
     
  10. K

    K

    hello,


    i will write a page on the wiki TGM serie pages, as soon as i will get time...

    but i've got "others" stuff to work on first...


    but the most important point, is to not merge ARS (or SRS) and wall-kick rules because they are 2 differents things and WK should be seen as an extention of rotation system. Because if the ARS have his own WK rules in TGM 1, 2 and 3, and same for SRS in TGM3, TGM ACE show that worst frankenstein mix are possible...


    ARS and SRS are really easy to understand even for the total noob, but the WK application are more difficult to handle...
     
  11. Ok I don't have it in me tonight for a wiki entry just yet, but here's the full story on the TGM wallkick.


    As you know, the game will first try the default rotation, then 1 space to the right, then one space to the left.


    The I piece does not wallkick at all.

    Otherwise, there are 3 special case exceptions to this rule:


    [​IMG]

    In each case the default rotation will fail, both clockwise and counter-clockwise. Wallkicks, even though possible, are skipped with the presence of blocks exactly as shown.


    I'll repeat myself: wallkicks are allowed from that orientation, but not with the presence of the extra blocks shown. Here is an example:


    [​IMG]
    Both wallkick one space right, only the wallkick on the left is legal in TGM.

    It might be useful to consult the default Sega/TGM rotations to make sure you understand these exceptions.


    And that's all there is to standard TGM wallkicks, which were used in TGM1, TGM2, and Tetris with Cardcaptor Sakura. In TGM3 things changed. I'm not an expert on this for obvious reasons, but the gist is like this:


    I pieces have a vertical wallkick (ONLY when moving into the vertical orientation). So the game will check default, one space up, and then 2 spaces up. I think I've had this fail at the extreme top of the screen, I'm not entirely sure why.


    T pieces have also been given a vertical wallkick. I *think* that whenever the T is pointing left or right, and it rotates such that the T will be pointing up, the game checks to wallkick up 1 space, the right, then left. This isn't nearly as useful as the vertical I wallkick, so I'm not very familiar with it. Don't quote me on it. [​IMG]
     

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