yop, Normally i use my laptop for training on a custom personnal application. Unfortunately i can't access it regularly this time around, and certainly Heboris is the best decent solution for my outdated PC. After some training in practice mode with T.A. Death gameplay value setting, i appear that general gameplay is "sloppy". Since i'm little bit psycho about those things i decided to check it deeper. Very thanks to shade for the stepframe slow motion implementation in both mame, and in Heboris. Excel sheet result : and the corresponding gameplay value entered on heboris practice mode. Noob explanation For people who just need to train particular condition, just enter the original value on practice mode with correction : Lock delay = n-2 ARE = n-1 Line Clear = n DAS = n example for T.A. Death 500 : Lock delay = 15-2 => 13 ARE = 6-1 => 5 Line Clear = 4 DAS = 8 Headache Explanation This is weird. Even if we can go along sound and visual moment difference, Procedural events are not really acurate with original and interfere with gameplay. - On those graphic the input are obviously checked between each frame redraw/sfx play. - i don't have analysed sound channel on TAP graphic because stepframe cheat use the MAME pause witch disable sound (sorry). Active tetramino redraw is always delayed by 1 frame whereas Sound is ok (?!?). In that way i've counted frame basing on sound instead of display. Lock Delay have 2 frames more than TAP. On last frame you can move the piece and hear lock sound. Strange but unperceivable in normal speed play. - ARE have 1 frame more than TAP. But it may be 2 or 3 depending on the way you will analyse next. - IRS is CANCELABLE. (WTF ?) IRS is prepared between frame 23 & 24 (in this example configuration), so by holding rotation button you will hear on Frame 24 IRS sound. Until here it is ok. But Piece display into playfield will only be redraw on frame 26. So on Frame 25, the piece is still not appeared BUT you can ROTATE is on the opposite side ! Witch mean you can hear IRS sound whereas rotation is "canceled". Or you can rotate the piece if you hold rotation between frame 24 & 25 and benefit IRS without the "schwing" linked sound.... In any case piece redraw will be on frame 26. Another Strange fact is that you can "only" rotate but not shift, Certainly a "quick and dirty" implementation to restrict instant "jump spawn shift". So in conclusion Spawn moment is "unclear"... - Tepple, if you want to correctly mimic TGM on LJ, i think those tables are what you need. EDIT : wow, i'm self impressed by my engrish level ! (sorry guys)
After looking at all the details, it seems that the quick fix of Lock-2 ARE-1 will leave only cosmetic innacuracies, which isn't too bad. If you disabled sound, you'd be missing 1 visible frame at piece spawn and the rest would be almost identical right? We should forward this analysis to the heboris developers.
Maybe we should compile a list of suggestions from TC to the Heboris developers. I for one would love if they implemented POV hat support so I can use my VSHG in Heboris U.E without Joy2Key. Then again, we might not want to flood them with requests either.. we don't want to come off as too demanding.
^ Same here. Heboris doesn't recognizes my 360's D-pad, but Sidewinder works fine. I know, both of them sucks
very interesting! i knew it was easier in heboris! this should be performed in the standard package as well, might be different than the lite version.
yeah ! almost... with added correction the gameplay difficulty instantly "feel more as" TAP death 500. so, definitively if somebody need to create a "perfect clone" of TAP prodedural events, the first diagram is what you must have. I used the same way to retreive data long time ago for TGM1, but Excel would have been more practical on that time. Of course those diagram are simplificated to only 1 fixed counting gameplay value(should use "n" everywhere) and far more data exists as next piece, text data update etc...
In interest of Heboris and its future I must post this as a warning: According to Arika, TAP is banned from Mame. If you use this information to provide Heboris with more accurate play, you will put the Heboris project into danger! It is all about the presentation of these numbers. You can't say "this is TAP" and "this is Heboris". You can however say "this is more like TAP" and "this is Heboris". How you got the values is also counted. If you analyzed a video stream, by frame stepping, then you did the exact thing as the Heboris team did. And this is pretty much legal. Using Mame on the other hand is not legal. If it was legal, the Heboris team would have done this analyzing work already; therefore I see this as "a stab in the back" rather than "a helping hand". Not to sound too rude (I already have). You are free to implement these fixes yourself into an unofficial Heboris (and make it private. Because Heboris is better off if you break the law yourself rather than making them break the law for you). (This is my opinion) You are free to state yours. I will not agree or disagree, that means I've only put this post here as a warning. Not to flame any of you.
Thanks Lee N for the feedback. I will check that. Pfiuuu.... Heboris project into danger! .... Lost, there is absolutely no copyright infringement here. As you noticed, the way information was retreived is pretty much legal because no direct source code decompilation was involved. And i don't think that some modification in Heboris engine procedural event will change anything to his out of law status as any tetris clone. As you pretty well know, i don't have time to update my own work, and you want me to do that of another ? a "stab in the back" would be to implement these fixes into a private unofficial Heboris.... and i don't like to reinvent the wheel... we have confirmation that this issue can be avoided. In a general way I'm pissed off by this kind of gardian morality intervention, but this time by somebody who proudly claim about success decompilation of TAP master mode Gm condition (amongst others things) witch is potentially more hurting to the original game is displeasing.
Update ! So i followed the advise and set : "SKIP LOCKFLASH" = SUPER Now both Sound and Tetrimino redraw have 1 frame late, it is sure that it don't came from any input delay since the previous version got the sound in time for the very next frame. no problem with Lock Delay but Spawn Extra frame bonus is not implemented. There is still an Issue at the spawn moment : The Tetramino redraw have 2 frame late whereas sound only 1. Since you can normally input between f rame 21 & 22 you you will only see result of 2 actions on frame 23. Not a big issue in normal speed. I haven't checked the "With complete row animation" but i assume it must be ok. finally everything seems to be ok at normal speed. - By the way to People here want to know if it is possible to implement joystick POV support. Seems to be a major issue with most of the recent arcade stick for PC. - And a Fetal Step frame debugger too Thank you very much dear lurker.
To explain this (because you simply assumed it is understood): The first frame when a piece spawns does not count towards lock time. Also, this frame only has IRS and not horizontal movement. So in the end you get the same number of frames for movement, but the piece is displayed for 1 extra frame before locking. Your words aren't matching your pictures. By your original picture IRS happens at frame 22 in TAP, and 21 in Heboris LITE 32.9. So... it's 1 frame early? Can you clarify this?
ahjh yeah i forgot about that : the IRS check is done 1 frame early, but the moment you will hear it is still on the good timing.
So to clarify the whole spawn problem: -IRS input check is one frame early -IRS sound is ok -piece spawn graphic display is one frame late -spawn visual lock time +1 not implemented
