Rotation Advice

Hi Guys,
I'm not really the greatest tetris player there is, nor the worst... I think the highest Tetris DS rating I got was almost 6250

I consider myself a tetris noob compared to a lot of people who post here on the forums.. especially considering the fact that i rotate the peices clockwise constantly

So I had some questions regarding rotation in tetris...

Does rotating the pieces both ways really help improve speed? (i'm pretty sure it does but i'd like other peoples input)
Do you guys have any advice to learn to rotate both ways (i'm so use to only rotating one way and it feels almost impossible to become comfortable with rotating both ways, and i've tried to learn but everytime i go back to clockwise-only rotation i seem to go faster because im more comfortable with it)

i'd really like to become comfortable with clockwise and counterclockwise rotation, but it just seems that i screw up rotating the other way and it drops my speed, maybe i just need more practice and patience, or maybe i'll never learn? is rotating one way best for some people? does anyone have pieces per minute or LPM numbers of improvements from rotating one way verses both ways?

thanks guys, i know this sounds like a pretty noob topic, just wanted to hear some words of wisdom from tetris gods

 

VERY YES

The catch is that it's going to be slower at first, and will only show it's speed in the long term after a few hours of play. Just force yourself to play slowly and use it, and you won't regret it after a couple sessions.

 

I didn't learn to use counterclockwise rotation until I played Dr. Mario. But then, that game uses a lot more twisting than classic Tetris.

 

When I first joined the site in April I had the same problem you currenlty have. I had been using only one button for about a month and was also wondering if I could get faster by using both buttons. When I was strongely encouraged to rotate both ways I decided to do just that. I recall some forum member telling me to use all game features to take full advantage of the game and this is very true indeed. The game was designed with 2 buttons in mind so use them (although this is probably not be the case for every Tetris game available).

Even though I only played Tetris for about a month using one button it took me about 2 weeks to feel completely confortable using both buttons. If you've been using one button for a longer time it may take more time and effort. But you should keep in mind that you will greatly benefit from this adjustment.

Just force yourself to always use both buttons. You will be very slow in the beginning and it will be frustrating because you will be confused at what button to use at what time. Just don't give up and take your time to think about what you're doing. After a while you will automatically know what button to use.

You may not feel any speed improvement immediately, but after you get used to playing with 2 buttons you will play alot more efficiently. Using less keystrokes to get the pieces where you want will eventually improve your playing speed. When I was using one button my tpm (tetrominoes per minute) was around 40. Currently I can get close to 100 and there is still alot of room for improvement.

Just make sure when you make the switch to ALWAYS use 2 buttons from that point on. I messed up by combining both methods during the first week. So switch and never use one button anymore.

Good luck!

I can confirm this. What helped me greatly is TGM. When you can't rotate the piece infinitely you will be forced to react very quickly when the game speeds up. You won't be able to to use one button to get every piece where you want it and you will be forced to use both buttons. You should definitely give this method a try.

Having said all that I still don't use all 3 buttons in TGM. I will probalby be encouraged to use all buttons and I plan to, but can someone tell me how using the 3rd button is advantageous and when I should use it? This may be a reason why 20G is still difficult. Though I doubt it seeing people playing NDS TGM at the same level as regular TGM.

 

At least you didn't do what I did and go from TGM3 rotation and hold pieces for like 3 or 4 months to trying to learn TGM/TAP.

 

Well, it doesn't help =that= much. If you're willing to endure an awkward finger position you can actually use 3 buttons for NDS TGM too (i don't).

Essentially, you use it mainly for rotating 180 degrees since IRS A + rotate C is slightly faster and easier than IRS A + rotate A (since you don't have to lift and then depress a button).

Also for those situations where you need to rotate 270 degrees, I usually do IRS A and then rotate C twice.

 

Thank you for your reply. I'll give it a try when I have more time and see if I can get used to it. I will have to learn it at some point anyway.

Also I had no idea you could use a 3 button configuration on the DS. I have only been using the default settings.

 

not really, but i think the rotation direction decision making process becomes so fast through practice that the time lost there is insignificant. so obviously the method that saves inputs is going to be faster. J/L/T can achieve all orientations optimally if you rotate both ways, and in SRS games like Tetris DS you can save left/right inputs by rotating I/S/Z both ways. in the case of TGM series games where you have 2 CCW buttons, time can also be saved because you can hit each button once faster than hitting the same button twice when you want the orientation of the piece flipped 180 degrees.

also, learning both rotation directions opens up twists that were impossible before. this twist only works if you rotate CCW. if you only knew how to rotate CCW then the mirrored twist with the L piece would be impossible.

in Tetris DS there are some twists that require the piece to enter the slot in a certain orientation. in this example the twist works with only CW rotation but you can see it takes a lot more work and costs time.

 

ok thanks for all your replies guy. i guess what i'll do is force myself to play it for awhile.. ive been using clockwise rotation for a VERY long time so its going to take a very very long time to unlearn, it feels like its permanently drilled into my brain, but i'll see if i can relearn the better way of playing

 

You'd be surprised how fast it can come. If you force yourself to use it, pretty soon the relative simplicity (compared to triple rotation) will strongly reinforce the habit. The same is true for all finesse as well, like the 3rd rotation button and advanced DAS techniques. If you force yourself to use efficient placements a little bit, then they'll naturally get reinforced and become your default action.

 

I'm very big for rotating both ways and logically it is faster because you hit less buttons. That being said it isn't really needed to go fast. Two of the fastest people playing Cultris used only one way rotation and both could go around 150 pretty easy and could max any where from 170 to 190. It is a good ability to learn and is needed in games like TGM, but in SRS games it is a good thing to know but isn't needed to reach high speeds. I would definitely tell people to learn it, but in all honesty it is far from being necessary in terms of speed (you do need it for twists in stuff though). That's just my opinion though.

 

do you think in Tetris DS the 2 way rotation would impact speed greatly? i've played TGM and can see how it would impact speed in that, but i have a feeling most of the speed factor is from how fast you can think to place the peices.. i mean i do think being good at the 2 way rotation vs 1 way is better/faster, but i dont know how significant

 

Tetris DS scoring and garbage are largely based on T-spins. You have to know how to rotate both ways just to get twists to work.

 

one way to look at speed in multiplayer is the pace at which you're clearing garbage. if you're not able to uncover holes consistently then it doesn't matter so much how fast you stack on top of the garbage, unless the other player is having trouble clearing the garbage you're sending. if you look at the TDS 9x20 stacking leaders and the wifi rating leaders, there isn't much of a correlation between the 2 leaderboards, although of course it helps to be able to stack fast.

i made another little situation and i really can't think of a better way to deal with it with the pieces given. the solution i gave involves a soft drop which slows you down in the short run, but you'll save a lot of time being able to clear the messy garbage underneath easily. let's say you have an I piece in hold and there isn't another one coming soon (a common scenario), so you're unable to use hold and have to play the pieces in the order they come:
http://zeta.hypersector.com/Tools/Tetri ... Ep6OAAA?AA

 

What can improve speed greatly isn't just dual rotation buttons, but stacking technique.
Back in 2005-2006 the only tetris game I had was the first one for Game Boy, I had owned it since I was a little kid but never really played it seriously.
So I came over this video from the Gamefaq's board from Spectre maxing out the score in TetrisGB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keeSEJG4XzU
Back then I wasn't a good player, but my skill improved SO VERY MUCH just by _watching_ that vid and how be stacks and places every block. I spent a whole day studying that video and his technique and learned greatly from it. (In fact, had I never seen that video I wouldn't be here playing Tetris today)
After that I started playing Tetris GB for about 5 hours a day for a couple of weeks and had a series of tetris-related dreams and I saw tetrominoes everywhere, both when I was awake and asleep, I could see blocks falling in front of my eyes and see where they would fit although I wasn't playing, it was crazy!
After this I became much better and faster at the game, I was probably still just rotating one way though, and once in a while the other way if I was 100% sure it wouldn't be the wrong way.
I didn't have a hard time learning both buttons however.

Again for stacking improvement, I would recommend that you play TGM or TAP (try Texmaster Normal or Special, not Ti) which does not have Hold, it will help you think better of your placement than if you were playing with it. If you're used to Tetris DS which has Hold then it will take some time to get used to not using it.

Actually I started playing Texmaster and TAP on mame about a month ago and found it hard to get used to no hold. But after a month of it I was so used to not being able to use HOLD that I actually couldn't play WITH it in a game which had HOLD present.

 

I don't think it would improve speed greatly. How fast you can figure out where to put things is what determines most of your speed. A friend of mine who is faster than me at Cultris told me he wanted to keep tetris simple so he uses only one rotation system. I use both rotations but he can still go faster simply because the amount of times you need to rotate three times is not going to make a difference when you can place pieces over 10 or so bpm faster. For him one way rotation is more comfortable and from my experince the optimal way to play is to play however feels most comfortable.

 

i think you're right Red Star, most of your stacking speed comes from making quick decisions. but i still can't help but think that if you only used one rotation you would be a tad slower, and if your friend used two rotations he would be a tad faster.

another thing that should be noted is how the line clear delay affects your overall speed. if i remember correctly the delay is small or nonexistent in cultris. TDS has a long delay compared to most games, and the delay is the same no matter how many lines you clear. making singles in TDS will really slow you down unless you're uncovering garbage holes consistently.