Heboris VS Textmaster

I have nothing to say !

I open this topic with few hopes to see some players explain the differences between the 2 programs..


As you know, To practice TAP is outdated today, I have been one of the last in January beause I wanted the 2 m ranks, but since I play heboris to practice a game close to TGM3..Textmaster also emulate Ti MASTER and SHIRASE..

There is 2 leaderboards, and it is not easy to gather everybody under the same game..


I would like to know what is the interest to prefer textmaster special Ti than Heboris Master G4..(for example) or Sudden ti than DOOM..(other example)..

 

I think edo was planning to make a thread about the timings in Texmaster soon, so I'll leave that to him.


But right now it seems that Texmaster is the most accurate clone, closely followed by Heboris Mini.


edit: oh, and it's "Texmaster" not "Textmaster".

 

And I assume it has nothing to do with TeX, just as Lockjaw has 0 to do with LiveJournal.

 

TEXTMASTER

Code:

 OOO
  O
..........       1ST HALF 03:14.54
O.........       2ND HALF 01:35.69
OOOOOOOOO.       ROLLTIME 59:59.99
OOOOOOOOO. Gm    00:45.75 00:45.75
.OOO.OOO..       00:39.51 01:25.26
.CONGRATU-       00:40.11 02:05.37
.LATIONS..       00:34.19 02:39.56
.......... Score   00:34.98 03:14.54
.YOU ARE.. 1794267  00:29.16 03:43.70
..GRAND...       00:25.34 04:09.04
..MASTER..       00:21.63 04:30.67
OO..O..OOO       00:18.56 04:49.23
OOOOO.OO..       00:01.00 04:50.23
OOOOOOOOO. Level
..OOOOOOO. 999
.OOO.OOOOO ---
OOOOOOOO.. 999    
OOOOOOOOO.
OOOOOOOOO.        0 0 0 -2493
OOO.OOOOOO       FANTA GRAPE

 04:50.23

 

fanta grape

 

There's two quite subtle reasons why I think Texmaster has greater potential for accuracy than Heboris.


To illustrate the first point:




The pictures above show lock delay just ending, and ARE just beginning. We know that lock delay for Death 0-99 is 30 frames, so why does the piece lock on the 31st frame, as evidenced by the timer? Well, for all games in the TGM series, the spawn frame does not count towards lock delay. If we were to let the red "I" piece (up next) spawn on top of the "J" and stay there, it would again lock after 31 frames; but if we were to slide it off to the right, lock delay would reset and it would lock 30 frames after hitting the floor. To the best of my knowledge, Heboris does not replicate this behaviour, but Texmaster does.


Second point:


For Shirase 200-299, if you lock a piece that clears lines, the next piece will spawn 2 frames earlier than if you had locked a piece that didn't clear lines. It appears that the line clear delay is negative. Why is this, and how is it possible to replicate this behaviour in Heboris? The answer is, it's not possible. Heboris does not differentiate between the delay after locking a piece, and the delay after clearing a line; they are both the same "syutugen"/"ARE". But the TGM series and indeed Texmaster use two separate values: after locking a piece, you get "delay A" and then the next piece spawns; after clearing lines, you get "delay B" and then the next piece spawns.


Let's talk about an example that many of you will be familiar with:

For Death 100-299, when simply locking a piece, there's 14 frames ("delay A") before the next piece spawns. When clearing lines, the line clear animation lasts 6 frames, and then there's a further 8 frame delay ("delay B") for a total of 14 before the next piece spawns. The net result is that there's no added delay when you clear lines. It's sort of possible to replicate this in Heboris by setting ARE to 14 and Line Clear Delay to 0 (as quoted on the wiki), but this is not ideal.

But Shirase 200-299 presents real problems: when simply locking a piece, there's 12 frames ("delay A") before the next piece spawns. When clearing lines, the line clear animation lasts 4 frames, and then there's a further 6 frame delay ("delay B") for a total of 10 before the next piece spawns. It's not possible to set ARE to 12 and Line Clear Delay to -2. Heboris can't handle this situation, but Texmaster can.


Although the Texmaster timing data is currently not 100% accurate, it's just a simple case of changing a few values in order to make it perfect. With Heboris, even if all the correct values were available, it is still not possible to achieve total accuracy, not without a significant rewrite of the relevant code.


I hope my explanation isn't too confusing for you, and please don't take this the wrong way: I'm not saying Heboris is a "bad" game; it certainly has more game modes and more customizability than Texmaster, but for people seeking an arcade-accurate experience, I would say Texmaster is the game to go for. Until I get my own Ti machine, I'll be using Texmaster; but I'll definitely still use Heboris for different types of training.

 

very nice write up edo. Texmaster appears to have a very solid foundation.

 

Now that all the workings of Ti have been placed on the internet, is it not reasonable to assume a pretty much exact clone will be coming pretty soon?

 

where are all the workings of Ti on the internet?

 

It was here, but the file is now gone.

I assume some people have it saved somewhere.

 

Wow great explanation edo thanks!

 

http://nihon.se/tgm03.htm - this is the first file that got published.

http://nihon.se/tgm03_corrected.htm - then they released this which fixed some inaccuracies.


But it's not all there is to know about the game, there's still a lot we don't know.

 

very nice and detailled explanation edo.

interesting information about the negative value...

 

Thank you very much edo, but I need to read more than one time to well understand..


So I won't die if I continue to play Heboris..

Maybe I will change later..But heboris or texmaster, both are very good games and I take enough pleasure with heboris..

 

HEBORIS and Texmaster.

 

yeah, why not have both!

 

Played Texmaster today.

Graphically, it is basic. Which I love. Unlike Heboris or MAME it runs perfectly even on the worst computers at my school. I also quite like the counter-strike theme

Other than that, no real comments. Pretty good clone, which is about what I expected.

 

My precedent post has been deleted..
I could guess why..But I think it is exagerated from the eraser..

It did not mean that I am a faschist or anything else..


So I will reformulate it :


I think that spreading on too many supports doesn't help for the improvement..

There is still a tetlag which brakes the improvement..

 

Talk about WWI or WWII isn't the greatest of ideas on any international forum. Even if I do think we're mostly mature enough to not let things escalate.


"I personally find any comments about winning or losing WWII to be mildly offensive coming from a Frenchman..."

Those sorts of things do have the potential to get out of hand. I don't think it was deleted because you were seen to be racist. It's just stopping something before it has any chance to develop.

 

i read that heboris can clone TGM games, but i don't know how to get to the ranking mode of play. i pick solo mode, then choose my rotational system, and then it gives me a list of game-modes. but none of these modes do the 1-9 S1-S9 ranking as i play and alot of them end really early

i have heboris 160a, with the 0562 patch


i didn't see an official Heboris thread or anything so i hope this is ok...