# Hard question (T bravo?)

Thread in 'Discussion' started by B.G., 10 Aug 2007.

2. ### K

what are you talking about ????

3. ### Pineapple

I know what he's asking about. He wants us to show him is a loop is possible, starting and ending with an empty pit, using just T pieces.

4. ### K

ahhh ok.... needle explained me....

Needle and ct also explained me that it's impossible... since i've got some Alzheimer problem i will not think much about it and let it to both explain the stuff...

5. ### ei

I wouldn't say impossible...

In other news, hi everyone, long time lurker here, finally found an excuse to register and such. Weird impetus to register, but...whatever.

Anyway, hopefully I'll be getting in on the TGM1 competition soon (at least, once I manage to get a halfway decent game together/regain my tiny bit of skill I once had from a long time ago)

Hope to be hanging around a lot longer.

~EI

6. ### DIGITALUnregistered

Very concise solution!

And welcome to the forums.

7. ### Pineapple

Nice. Welcome to TC. Have you seen any of the other threads where we've explored the mathematical possibilities of the game?

8. ### ei

Thanks for the welcome.

I have read through the randomizer theory thread, but not much else. It was a good read--I found it interesting that the TGM/TAP generator does more to avoid droughts (in general) AND floods (by nature) than the SRS bag generator--I expected SRS to be better at the former in most cases simply because 12 is the absolute maximum--but I had never stopped to consider the probabilities.

I might have to drudge through the topics and see what else I can find though. If it's all as interesting as the randomizer theory it'd be worth reading.

~EI

9. ### B.G.Unregistered

Nice going, EIHoppe!

thx a lot!

10. ### Pineapple

The current project that some of us are working on, involves tryng to stack a particular set of pieces into a pit. It's very similar to what you did in this thread here, except that not all of the pieces are the same.

http://www.tetrisconcept.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=137

11. ### tepplesLockjaw developer

For the benefit of that guy who switched from Windows to Ubuntu, as well as anyone else who doesn't feel safe using IE, here it is in plain monospace text:

Code:
....fe....  ..........
...ffee... => gjjjfeiiih
dddafebccc  ggjffeeihh
.daaabbbc.  gdaaabbbch


Incidentally, this 10-wide solution is made of two 5-wide solutions side-by-side, so it'll work in any 5n-wide well. There is also a 4-wide solution familiar to players of The New Tetris:

Code:
dddc......
bdcc......
bbac......
baaa......



12. ### lee n

.. and for the sake of clarity. Here's an animated gif.

Very elegant solution though, nice going EIHoppe.

13. ### colour_thief

Nice one! To clarify, I meant it was impossible with a standard tiling, which means that you must create a line with a hole under it.

Also, thank you for reading and understanding the randomizer theory thread. At the Strasbourg TGM gathering, it took quite a lot of time to get people to even understand the graph, let alone the rest of the theory.

14. ### ei

Ah. Yeah, that's impossible. I tried that approach first for a few moments before realizing that I'd have to get clever and such...

...And no problem about reading and understanding the randomizer theory--it was an interesting (and informative!) read. I might find something to contribute, but you've definitely got most of the major work done already.

I was using Opera, and it actually worked fine once I figured out how to use it (apparently it required middle clicks to set the blocks in place...weird). In fact, I'm running Slackware Linux right now. =)

Ah, yeah. I looked at that a bit on the wiki--the whole "playing forever" issue.

I'll do my best on that and let you guys know if I come across anything that'll work better, but...that's a tough issue to be sure, heh. =P

~EI

15. ### Caithness

The fumen site works for me in Opera on OSX.

16. ### jujubeUnregistered

good solve EIHoppe

this one doesn't clear the well, but can be used in mission mode in Tetris DS when you need to clear 5 lines using only T pieces:

it builds around the 4x4 T square on the left side of the well that tepples made.

17. ### Pineapple

I just discovered another mathematical paper that was published about tetris by Walter Kosters. It contains another solution to the T bravo puzzle.

http://www.liacs.nl/~kosters/tetris/tot.pdf

The parent folder to the pdf contains something that I have not loked at fully yet.

Also, jujube found solutions for 6 wide and 7 wide, and therefore demonstrated that any pit of width 4 or greater can be taken from an empty state into an empty state with just T tetrominoes. The 6 wide is a little inelegant (and so is my spelling...), as it it requires 8 rows, not 4. Improvements are welcomed. I will wikify this info soon...

18. ### caffeine

and two more in case you play tnet: one and two.