Encyclopaedia Taitotypexicum

Thread in 'Discussion' started by Muf, 21 Jan 2015.

  1. Muf


    As per the title, that is what I don't want TC to become. We now have a bunch of threads talking about Ti torrents, Type-X bootlegs, Type-X hard disk encryption, how to make your own Type-X, and other assorted borderline illegal shit. This is not cool, people. When I said I *personally* consider (and my view is lenient compared to other members) information on typex_loader to be comparable to information on MAME, I didn't mean to say "I hereby open the floodgates of piracy and hacking".

    TC has historically always had a policy of tolerance towards the use of emulation and pirated ROMs, since for the vast majority of members it is the only way to play the authentic game and without turning a blind eye to it this community would consist of a circlejerk of roughly 10 members. But we have never allowed things like instructions on how to reflash a Psikyo board to the TAP romset (it's a complicated process), or, like in this case, instructions on how to bootleg your own Ti.

    I was uncomfortable with it the moment the first thread started and felt it hypocritical to allow one (MAME) but not the other (typex_loader), but it's getting more and more awkward as time goes on.

    Please discuss. I'd like the community as a whole to make a decision on this.
    Shuey, Qlex and Meroigo like this.
  2. I think only basic emulation talk should be mentioned, as with time, emulators have become much more mainstream (with nintendo games being so rare, old, and popular still). Building a type x like machine is harmless, but talking about running illegitimate software on it should not be allowed.
  3. This is one of those Shmups Forum "too close for comfort" situations. If you build a "alternative Type X," what on earth could you possibly use it for unless you a) already have the game, or b) are planning to "acquire" it? There aren't (currently) any independently developed and freely distributed games that could run on the platform, so you can't exactly point to it and say "oh yeah this is for homebrew." Any legitimate use of it would be extremely narrow (and if the reason was to reduce input lag compared to the official setup, that's arguably cheating, as unfortunate as the situation may be).

    I think the threads should be closed. Even stuff like Jago's AHK stuff should maybe be cleaned up for consistency's sake -- lag research is all well and good, but once you start modifying the contents of game data or running additional programs/scripts, it's tempting to ask what else might be possible.
    Shuey and Meroigo like this.
  4. Agree with OP

    I'm fine with members on here sharing information on MAME (low-lag info on MAME is on the wiki), ROMS and with behind-the-scenes assistance of how to get things working with Ti - those things are always going to happen. That said, I'd rather the blatantly illegal stuff didn't happen out in the open here. If people post on here looking for how to play TGM1 or TAP I'll PM them a pretty comprehensive guide on how, but I wouldn't want that stuff posted and stickied as a guide because it's not above board.

    If nothing else, it massively weakens any future position we might have for trying to negotiate or discuss things and work co-operatively with TTC, because they'll just label us as a community of immoral savages that aren't worth their time. Mihara already sees us as a haven of TGM bootleggers and fan-made clone harpies, and I'd rather that was his view because he's a crazy dumbass and doesn't understand the western community, rather than because he's actually right.

    I want TetrisConcept to be the place people go to discuss Tetris, not the place people go for hacks and Tetris warez.

    That said, I don't blame anyone in said threads for making them. There's been a sizeable influx of new members recently and I wouldn't expect any of them to instantly pick up and be aware of the unwritten rules on here.
    Shuey, Qlex and Meroigo like this.
  5. Remember, just because :sowsuser: is an emote doesn't mean we have to act the part... ;)

    But yeah, on Rosti's point, it's pretty understandable that it would come up. It's also an issue in Twitch chat now, and we're trying to keep on top of moderation and imparting the understanding that (in Twitch parlance) "we don't want the TTC/Arika Cops to shut it down." People are going to ask "how can I play this game" and someone who doesn't yet know the situation is likely to answer every now and again.
    Shuey and Meroigo like this.
  6. I must be slow, I saw the thread as a general support on actual TypeX and the technology behind it, which seems fair.
    Personally I don't think open discussion about TypeX piracy has any place on a public forum, just like I don't think MAME discussion for any purpose other than support and maintenance of actual boards could be justified no matter if you're talking games from 2000 or 1980.

    Breaking encryption on legally purchased goods for your own personal use is not really something I can see a problem with though, but depending on where you live there are of course various laws related to that, even though they often change and can be considered a grey area that's very rarely dealth with in court - which I guess would make sense to avoid, just to be sure. Downloading a pirated game - whether you actually own it or not - is quite strictly and obviously an illegal action, though.
  7. I will admit, I'm not exactly the best mascot for anti-piracy. However, if there's one site that really needs stricter rules on it, it's this.

    We're a great group of Tetris players that helps each other out and even organize meetings with each other. We hold competitions and set records all the time. And the last thing we need is for this site to get shut down. (Or a tarnished reputation, which is also pretty bad.)

    I think there should be some rules on this. For instance, saying whether MAME is allowed in a competition or not is fine. Asking how to make MAME work with TGM1 or how to download Ti should obviously be kept off the forums(or at the very least, kept to a PM).
  8. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    Only legitimate way to gain a copy of the program is to buy a TI hard drive and dongle kit. Backing up the hard drive is ok, as long as you keep the original dongle and drive. Copying the game executable and data off of said hard drive IS okay, provided you keep it to yourself. Hooking an I/O board to your own computer after doing this is okay, as long as you keep possession of the original hard drive and dongle. That's preservation. but you must delete it when you get rid of either the dongle or the hard drive. Anything else is a copyright violation, pure and simple. And thus not up for discussion here. period. Google is your friend.

    To help prevent the dongle from breaking it seems best to disable the LED on it.

    If you have a legit kit, and the dongle died, i believe there are people who can assist you. Someday I plan to be one of them, but first i have to buy the kit.

    That leaves the clone issue, which bothers TTC and Mihara just as much. Mihara only cares about TGM clones. He could care less about original tetrimino games. You know, what TTC says don't exist? The companies involved see the clones as every bit infringing as MAME, and since they managed to convince a judge that using the seven tetrominos in a falling block puzzle game where filled lines are deleted is trade dress, they can win until this is overturned. They are not quite evil enough to slap hobbyist programmers with fines that will make them homeless, which is why hobbyists who make clones get ignored until the clone actually gets popular. then they do something about it.

    So we need to decide for ourselves what is and is not okay. AS long as we support clones, TTC and Mihara will be unhappy. Then again we tried banning clone talk before and that didn't really change anything.

    So it seems no matter what our position is, there will be some hypocrisy involved, since clones are considered okay here.

    I agree. no assistance with mame, no discussion of the loader. Google is plenty helpful.

    Note to copyright holders. The only reason discussion is even tolerated here about MAMEing and cloning TGM games is because they aren't being sold to us on PC or console. Should they become available to purchase, that would shut down all discussion of any such things. :) Nullpomino (and Heboris before it) are an interesting case, since they are highly configurable, but the basic package for Nullpomino clones TGM, and would be very hard to remove from the internet at this point. That said, if there were official TGM software easily buyable, there would be no more clone leaderboards, i"m pretty sure. :)
    Linepiece778 likes this.

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