Clones and Mame accuracy

Thread in 'Research & Development' started by Tajomaru, 21 Nov 2012.

  1. Hi all,

    I am a long time lurker of this forum, but still a mediocre player. I have finally decided to play a bit seriously and have a few questions concerning TGM clones' accuracy.

    Obviously, the topic has already been discussed, and it seems Nullpomino is the best contender at the moment: texmaster heboris

    The questions are the following:
    - After a hard drop in Nullpomino Grade Mania, the piece locks automatically, no zangi move allowed. Is this the expected behaviour? I mean, the piece does not lock in Texmaster, nor in TGM/TAP (Mame 0147).

    - Searching this topic, I have met a few posts claiming that Mame emulation was not perfect, and that input lag could occur (both in TGM and TAP). Is this still the case today? Would you recommend Mame as a training tool?

    Please feel free to bash me if these questions are off the mark!
    Thanks a lot for your help.
  2. I'd say MAME is the best you're going to get for TAP and probably the best you're going to get for TGM1 besides getting real PCBs. It does have input lag, but with shmupmame/mametgm (it's on the wiki) and stuff it's pretty minimal. The gameplay emulation is spot on, and doesn't have any of the inaccuracies that Texmaster has, or the uncertainty that Nullpomino has. There's a reason that we accept scores recorded on MAME for the TGM/TAP records threads but won't accept scores from Texmaster or Nullpomino.

    MAME isn't perfect, but any score you get on MAME is solid, and control issues aside, it's fairly safe to say that you'd only ever do better on the real thing. If you get Sudden M in Texmaster, it's questionable whether you can get it on a real TAP machine. If you get Death M in MAME, there's not much question about your ability being at that level.

    Nullpomino is probably as close as you can get to 100% PCB-like gameplay (excluding the graphics), but I don't know how close default settings get you and whether it needs some tweaking to be properly representative in every way.
  3. There shouldn't be a hard drop in Grade Mania, since it's a simulation of TGM1. Grade Mania 2 and 3 have properly functioning Zangi moves, though. Nullpomino may be the most accurate clone, but it also has the most egregious input lag.

    shmupmametgm does reduce input lag, but it doesn't eliminate it entirely. It also causes the sound to be out of sync, which messes me up a little bit. And MAME also runs the game at the wrong framerate, although there should be a way to fix that. (I still haven't figured it out.)

    So far the game I've played with the least input lag is the elusive LTAP.
  4. Muf


    Set "speed" in the MAME ini to 1.02833 (rounded down).
  5. Thanks for the input!
  6. About Texmaster sudden, I've only noticed that it's more difficult than TAP. Specifically from 300, where I'm starting from usually, it seems like the entry delay is substantially smaller than tap, maybe even halved. But trying to go through the texmaster thread I couldn't see a consensus. What makes texmaster sudden easier or harder?
  7. Texmaster Sudden is easier than TAP Death. The timings are all exactly the same, except in TAP Death there is at least one frame (I think two?) where DAS won't actively charge, even if you're holding the button down, whilst in Sudden it will. There's no difference in timings but it's a lot easier to keep the DAS charged before pieces spawn (which is crucial in Death, especially above 500) in Sudden.

    The extra frames of DAS charge in Texmaster are, IIRC, a bug that basically makes Texmaster easier across all modes compared to the real thing.
  8. Indeed, I realize my first question was off the mark: I was using the wrong rule in Nullpomino :rolleyes:
    "Classic" rule should be used to replicate proper behaviour, I do not what is the use of the "current" rule.

    Well then, S2 here I come!
  9. It isn't 60 Hz ?

    EDIT: no
    Last edited: 30 Nov 2012

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