best way to lern 20G?

Thread in 'Strategy' started by TGGC, 16 Feb 2015.

  1. I started playing Nullpomino's Grade Mania Mode and I am stuck getting near 20G gameplay. At some point I don't realize I cannot move or rotate a piece to the place I want it to be and most of the time I misdrop the next pieces afterwards too. I already read some guides (for example http://kitaru.1101b.com/TGMGUIDE/) or the wiki here so I roughly know about the theory, but 0.5s are not yet enough to act according to theory.

    Is there a recommendation how to get better at 20G? Should I just play normally or with 20G mode enabled and be patient until it happens naturally?

    Also can you recommend another Tetris with TGM style rules for PC? I read the emulation of TGM1 (video bugs) and TGM2 (runs too slow) is broken.
     
  2. What kind of level are you getting to? Typically I'd recommend flicking between TGM 20G, TGM regular, and Death mode on TAP (which I think is Speed Mania or something on Nullpo?).

    And neither TGM1 nor TAP (TGM2+) are particularly broken in terms of emulation - there's a frame or two extra input lag but fundamentally they work fine. TAP used to run too slow but afaik that's fixed on the latest versions (and even on versions where it isn't fixed, the difference is pretty damn minimal anyway and offset by input lag). Most of the other bugs for the games are present in the arcade PCB as well. Most of the records in the TGM1 and TAP threads on here will have been set on emulated games, except for the top 10 people or so.
     
  3. On average I get to level 350 and 450+ in a good run, the few times I broke 500 were based on luck I think. So maybe I am going to look into the emulators just to mix it up a bit. I keep trying and maybe in year I post my record here, too. ;)
     
  4. I'm going through the same issues, I've been doing a lot of 20G mode on TGM1 and it helps a lot, I find the most challenging parts of regular mode are now the "not quite 20g" segments, where it'll get to somewhere you didn't predict it could.

    some things I've found really helpful,

    keeping in mind that keeping the middle rows (456) higher, is not only helpful, but mandatory. I always knew it was important, but a week and 100 games (at least) of 20G has made it so obvious how important it is. basically what I'm saying is knowing you need to do it, and actually doing it makes a huge difference.

    and keeping the right 2x2 square on the right side, for tetrising, again a matter of doing it instead of just knowing you need to do it.

    all in all I'm finding 20G much more relaxing then normal mode. it just takes time to realize what's possible and what's impossible, and then dealing with it.
     
  5. Half a second is more than enough, try to keep calm and always realise how much time you have, and always "play with" the next piece that hasn't dropped down yet, so you know exactly what you'll be doing once it's there, and you're focusing on the next one yet again. If you find the rhythm of the game, you will soon realise that it's not really as fast as it first seems. The moment you start panicking or focusing so much on the current piece that you can't focus on the upcoming one, is the moment that you fail. At least that's what's happening to me. :p As long as your stack is nice and smooth'ish it's pretty simple to keep a nice rhythm.

    And since you're learning, accept the extra time spent clearing single and doubles and use them to get a breather and regain focus (but don't spend too much time actually "thinking" :p), and abuse the fact that lock delay resets whenever the piece drops from an edge.
    I'm still learning 20G as well, and really the only thing that's working for me is constantly playing Death mode, forcing myself into uncharted territory. The more you play death, the simpler sub-20G will seem.
     
  6. Can't say for sure without a video, but in my experience the biggest things for people around this level are IRS and just general stacking shape.

    Make sure that you're getting piece IRS down - you want a 100% success rate with it. Pieces like L and J it's good to get into the habit of IRS'ing into the rotations that give you more mobility as they hit your stack (i.e. the orientations that they appear as the letters L and J). Even if you then have to rotate it back to the orientation it spawned in, the loss of time is very minimal and probably worth it for the extra practice, and the increased mobility you get without needing to think about much.

    And try and always keep the stack high in the middle. If you're not sure where to put a piece, stick it in the middle (in a way that creates an overhang if you have no other choice) and it will help you with mobility. Having the stack high in the middle is better in terms of mobility, but it also gives you more lock delay, because you can exploit the fact that the lock delay resets every time the piece drops a row. If you need a bit more thinking time and you have a pyramid stack, don't DAS to the side, but take your time a bit and use the extra lock delay you get as the piece drops down.

    Work on both of these and you'll end up with funky moves that look like this: (I'd keep rotating with A rather than using B, which looks nicer but really doesn't make any difference)
    [​IMG]

    They're slow and they might seem a bit clumsy, but in terms of getting to grips with 20G survival they can be a massive help.
     
  7. Yes the problem is really knowing vs. doing for me. In the heat of the battle I place a piece somewhere even if I know in theory, it is a bad placement because the middle is not high enough afterwards. Thats when half a second is not (yet) enough. And after the first error its most times panic mode for a few pieces and afterwards a constant battle against the holes building up, slowly dying. Reducing the amount of errors in the first place is the way to go. So some hard rules like always IRS L and J is a good idea. Also I am going to look up what Death Mode is in Nullpomino or get an emulator running.

    I have a video from a training session last weekend, but it somehow was very laggy at times. My longest game is here, but I think my first problem I am talking to much and do not really focus on the game when recording:


    I try to fix the lag issues and record some 20G mode games.

    Anyways thanks for all the advice, I will be back If I hopefully learned a little more and show some progress! :)
     
  8. Sry, it removed the timestamp, you have to go to 46:30 for my best game in this session.
     
  9. Yeah, it's the speed that's fundamentally killing you at the moment, not directly 20G. It's rare that you IRS pieces and it's also quite common that you've not charged the DAS (the fast sideways movement) before the piece spawns. For 20G you really need to know what you're planning on doing with your next piece before it enters the field and have the inputs ready - once it's entered the field it's a bit too late most of the time.

    I don't really have much advice in terms of improving your speed and thinking time, other than it'll improve with more practice. In the mean time the things I suggested in my previous post should help you out a bit in terms of increasing your mobility and giving yourself a little bit more time to actually think about the next piece.
     
  10. Getting slowly better. Did a personal best today with level 587 in TGM1 and level 199 in TGM1 20G mode. So thanks for all your kind help.

     
    Qlex and Kitaru like this.
  11. What me helped a lot is the 20g mode in Nullpomino (thanks for the YouTube video TGGC) and watching videos of professionals (like that
    )
    at 0.25 speed (especially IRS and positioning). I think a combination of both (95% playing and 5% studying professional performances) can really improve someones style.

    Another thing is to really get used to the game mechanics concerning the tricky wallkicks and needed space for placing the I-piece on the right (2x2) and left side (3x2).
    Kitaru did a great job on translating KANs Tutorial: http://kitaru.1101b.com/TGMGUIDE/

    Hope that helps :)
     
  12. What helps me is fully simulating the game logic for myself, then executing actions per the logic as I understand it. I've torn apart Sega's 1988 Tetris and some of TAP/TGM1, so I have an unfair advantage in this area.
     
  13. It's J.O's guide. Villadelfia translated/rewrote it. I host it. :)
     
  14. Sorry, my fault ^-^.
     
  15. COL

    COL

    @TGGC, AnnaMaus, and other newcomers who may read this page.
    The J.O/Villadelfia guide contains a lot of information, maybe too much to get quickly familiar with ;)

    The single most important piece of advice related to 20G stacking is in this page: http://kitaru.1101b.com/TGMGUIDE/6.htm
    I suggest you get familiar with that 5th column and how to raise it. Then you can build pyramids.
     
    Qlex likes this.
  16. orz

    orz

    play death until you can reach 200
     
  17. I've never played any of the TGM games, but in this 20G or Death Mode, does the time given to slide/rotate a piece after it appears on screen decrease as the difficulty level increases?
     
  18. Yes, the game speeds up every 100 levels in Death Mode until 500, for Master 20G its at 700 and 900 I think. There is a wiki with a table.
     
  19. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    I do suggest emulation for tgm1.

    only one clone i know of (and it's not nullpomino), as well as emulation has the same random number generator. i have no proof nullpomino has the exact same one programmed in (and am willing to be corrected on this point). While all versions implement the rerolling properly, they don't generate the same sequences the original game does, because the base RNG is different.

    a frame or two of lag isn't going to kill you for tgm1, as 20g is "slow enough" that it shouldn't matter.
     

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