Easiest way to hit NES lvl 29

Thread in 'Strategy' started by colour_thief, 10 Sep 2013.

  1. Ok, similar threads exist but I have a very specific goal coming from a very specific background. Help a brother out!

    Goal: Hitting the max speed (any score) before the end of the week. There's a local tournament this Sunday, last time it was for max lines and I was only narrowly defeated after the buzzer. Line counts were around 210 to give you a sense of the local scene. I'm hoping a bit of practice could let me wow the locals with a kill screen.

    Background: I've got the fundamentals. I can easily follow the speed, and knowledge of overhangs and twists is a non-issue. The peculiarities of NES Tetris in particular are stopping me from hitting this barrier. I know about wall charging and that you can transfer to the opposite direction. However level 19 is killing me hard. I can get 100+ lines from 19 once in a blue moon but my average is terrible, perhaps 10 lines. A stack even 3 blocks high is absolutely terrifying.

    Hard mode: I refuse to button mash. I'm well below average at button mashing, so unless you can make a case for some low hanging fruit I should strive for, it's nothing but single or double taps for me.

    So! I have some very specific questions.

    1. Someone give me an idea what a good proportion of pieces to be wall charged is.

    2. Can you get a wall charge off a tiny bump 1 block high? I'm assuming 2 frame window? Then how many to change direction?

    3. I think I know skill stopping but someone please explain it to me quickly to confirm.

    4. At level 19 speed, if I'm tapping a piece into place, how high above the stack do I want to be before making the last tap, in order to maximize my charge? I mean setting up an auto skill stop, or you could think of it as a skill start. I'm thinking the visual aid might be useful for timing? Or is it better just to skill stop?

    5. How often do players try to skill stop?

    6. Anything else you think I might be missing?

    7. What are the largest causes of charge loss and how can I avoid them / deal with them?

    I've basically been assuming the only difference between my current level and consistent kill screens is lack of charge management.
     
  2. wow. this is quite a post to respond to. i will do my best, from my perspective:

    Goal: Hitting the max speed (any score) before the end of the week.

    this is attainable for most players, IMHO.

    1. Someone give me an idea what a good proportion of pieces to be wall charged is.

    honestly, not sure what this means. do you mean which type of pieces or what number?

    2. Can you get a wall charge off a tiny bump 1 block high? I'm assuming 2 frame window? Then how many to change direction?
    not certain about this (kitaru and others may be able to elucidate) but my impression is that if you wall charge a piece at all it gains full charge. i am still not certain about this to be honest, maybe those aforementioned players can help a little. i know this video has been a huge help/hinderance for me. if you wanna check it out, do!

    3. I think I know skill stopping but someone please explain it to me quickly to confirm.
    sliding a piece with full DAS charge to the appropriate column before releasing.

    4. At level 19 speed, if I'm tapping a piece into place, how high above the stack do I want to be before making the last tap, in order to maximize my charge? I mean setting up an auto skill stop, or you could think of it as a skill start. I'm thinking the visual aid might be useful for timing? Or is it better just to skill stop?
    skill stop.

    5. How often do players try to skill stop?
    if i am right in my definition, i do it most of the time- 90%

    6. Anything else you think I might be missing?
    ?

    7. What are the largest causes of charge loss and how can I avoid them / deal with them?
    for me, if i have a stack that is flat or that i cannot charge against i lose DAS and revert to tapping which is soon followed by death. i try to keep at least a little overhang somewhere so i can charge against it. if you are simply planning on ling to level 29 this shouldn't be a real concern though. you don't even have to DAS charge to get a piece to the right, or even left, when the stack is that low.

    I've basically been assuming the only difference between my current level and consistent kill screens is lack of charge management.
    i can't say this is necessarily true, but i do know that if you are simply trying to get to a kill screen (level 29) charge management isn't actually your top priority- it should be not leaving holes in the bottom corners, especially the left one since the piece begin their journey oriented one space nearer that side than the right.
     
  3. PS where is this local tournament?
     
  4. That's not Hard Mode, that's the norm. :p

    Try to tech whenever you expend DAS by tapping, or if you know the next move requires a full 16 (or just feel like you need to top it off anyway).

    Yes.

    Duration of ARE+Clear. ARE is 10~18 frames depending on lock height (longer if higher up). Line clear is 17~20 frames depending on a frame rule.

    The only thing that expends DAS is tapping when a piece is active in the playfield. You can issue whatever input you want during ARE without affecting the state of DAS, so that constitutes the window.

    DAS to where you want and then let go. This leaves you with 10~15 frames of DAS (just moved or just about to).

    You're talking about a "walking charge" kind of thing? Mmm... I'd feel really concerned if it wasn't something I was doing from the top of the playfield with low stack or... I don't know, I don't have a good answer for that. I think you're taking it a step beyond what I'd be trying to execute.

    16 frames is around half of the playfield, for what it's worth.

    100% -- it's preferred method of finesse, six frames is a huge window. Break from it if you know you don't have DAS, of course, but I think it should be the focus in the typical use case.

    Not really. It might be worth keeping in mind that you're at negative edge (or 11 frames, really) after buffering a slide -- obviously still a great place to be momentum-wise, but positive edge vs. negative edge is the difference between movement straight out of the gate and three row falls leading the shifts, so it can certainly present a mobility concern if things are tight.

    Tapping. Don't tap.

    Missing a stop. Correct it and try to tech it back if there is a wall to work with.

    In either case, recognize that you have no momentum and adjust your movement scheme for the next pieces accordingly. If the stack is empty/low, you can probably "walk" the next piece to full DAS and be back on track. If it's medium/high or presents other mobility concerns, you need to construct or leverage a surface to tech off of with your next piece(s?) somewhere within one tap/two tap range -- don't be expecting to clear the whole screen after dropping momentum.

    Understanding of mobility constraints is also important, though for your goals you'll obviously be focusing on keeping the stack low. Though, be very wary of divots on the left, since anything developing into a L/J/I need on that side can snowball into something more problematic if not handled properly.
     
    Raul1138 likes this.
  5. just as i hoped, players like kitaru come to the rescue. he is the shit and knows what the fuck he is talking about. disregard my inane ramblings in favor of his wizened sense.
     
  6. Hey this is perfect. Thank you both! I'll put it into practice and update you on my progress.

    Ok cool. I realize the proper solution is to avoid these situations as much as possible, but, given a scenario where I have tapped.... Based on my understanding I should make an effort to hold down my final tap assuming if was done less than half a screen before the top of the stack (at level 19). Otherwise I will throw away some free DAS charging. Am I making sense?

    Tournament is in Waterloo Ontario at this thing, btw. They have a trophy for it and everything.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. once kitaru speaks, there is litle need for others to add. I second everything he said.
     
  8. Muf

    Muf

    As far as I know, tap against a wall once = full charge. No need to keep holding.
     
  9. Of course. But I'm speaking of a hypothetical scenario where wall charging is not an option. Or I'd rather take my guaranteed partial charge instead of taking a chance with a 2 frame wall charge opportunity.
     
  10. Ok, update after my first training session. Average is improving, enough to downgrade from terrified to uncomfortable when my screen is 3 high. ;)

    Taking the above advice to heart, here's what I've most noticed missing from my play style so far:

    -I'm not skill stopping nearly enough. My TGM instincts that tell me single and double taps are ok need to be overcome. Unfortunately 1 and 2 space skill stops are also the hardest to time because of the short lead in.

    -Skill stopping properly requires mastered understanding of the basic rotation states. I do ok but this needs to be rock solid or you will necessitate unnecessary corrections.

    -I often die with a pit on the left. I need to learn to respect this column, just like you respect the middle columns in TGM 20G.

    -Goddamn 6 O pieces in a row thank you game.
     
  11. QFE, very important takeaway for anyone learning this game.

    Yo what is this, SNES? :(
     
  12. if there is video of 6 in a row on NES, i would love to see it. I think think i have even seen above 5 (and that was sure annoying)
     
  13. No video, but to be truthful it was 5/6. I think the game generously provided a T piece in there. :p
     
  14. 5-6 O blocks in a row is good thought experiment. If you have lots of flat, it's great, but if you're all jagged, it's a nightmare. One of the hardest things to train yourself on in tetris is hole-creation acceptance. :)
     
  15. Something that both Death mode and the invisible credit roll enforce very heavily on you.
     
  16. Muf

    Muf

    So, basically; the opposite of kanstacking. :p
     
  17. COL

    COL

    Imho in 20g the goal is not to avoid all holes. It is about making harmless holes i.e. the ones you'll fix easily or which won't create much further trouble. Sonetimes you have to do that. Even in his craziest death videos Kan couldn't avoid all holes (although to be honest he makes a very FEW).
     
  18. Ok, so contest is over:

    1st - 206 lines (button mashing technique)
    2nd - 205 lines (DAS charge finesse technique) <- me
    3rd - ??? less than 190 I think

    Narrowly missed out on 1st place and $100! Despite this shortcoming, I have a much better idea how to improve, and if nothing else my average is much better now.

    Thanks for all your help!
     
  19. Ericcccc!

    First off I know nothing of what you guys are speaking of? Yes I'm a redneck button masher, but now wonder if I can get better by using some of your educated techniques .......?

    Ben Mullen invited me over here, and although I will enjoy reading the posts and techniques and tips listed I doubt I can get away from my style of play

    And thanks Ben for the compliment on my video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD9l_tMm2yc
     
    Last edited: 23 Sep 2013
    Raul1138 likes this.
  20. Oh wow, I do not know how it took me 4 days to see this post. :o Yeah for sure we should meet up sometime.

    And button mashing is good enough for Thor Aackerlund, so don't stress out about it too much. But there are probably some low hanging DAS tricks to complement your existing playstyle. As much as Kitaru might be a DAS purist, really being well rounded with both styles is probably a good thing.
     

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