The concept of Leverage

Thread in 'Discussion' started by Guest, 31 Mar 2006.

  1. Guest

    Guest Unregistered

    Hey, I just got here about a week ago, and I'm enjoying the site quite a bit. I especially liked your Tetris Worlds guide, and I think you should incorporate the "clear everything with Tetrises whenever possible" mantra into the Tetris DS guide.


    I've got a question, though - I don't quite understand the concept of leverage. Why are garbage clears worth 'less' than regular clears? Why does a (non-BTB)Tetris have four different leverage values depending on how much garbage it clears, despite all of them sending four garbage lines to the opponent and clearing four lines off of your screen?


    And why is a triple garbage clear the least valuable? Going by your Tetris Worlds guide, I'd think that single clears are the worthless ones.


    Otherwise, great site and guides!
     
  2. To be honest, I think that analysis reeks of pseudoscience. I raised that same question and Nicholas resorted to touchy feely justification.


    Truly, all judgement of what's best to clear should specifically look at time efficiency and survival, not block efficiency. If you can clear a double that immediately opens a tetris hole, that's better than trying to build up to a tetris (wasting time) and then going for 2 tetrises (wasting more time waiting for the needed I piece). Especially if you're pretty high up the screen. At least for me, anyhow, I'd crank out more faster this way because my building slows at the the top of the screen.
     
  3. "Why are garbage clears worth 'less' than regular clears?"


    garbage clears require less tetrominoes. you all ready have 9/10ths of a line made for you.


    "Why does a (non-BTB)Tetris have four different leverage values depending on how much garbage it clears, despite all of them sending four garbage lines to the opponent and clearing four lines off of your screen? "


    if i have four garbage lines lined up, it only takes me 1 tetromino to clear it. if i were to ignore it and build a tetris using no garbage, it would take 10 tetrominoes to clear it-- both give the same amount of garbage, but the first requires less tetrominoes. it follows that the first is worth more. the line clear values show very plainly that a player should always focus on garbage firstly.


    "And why is a triple garbage clear the least valuable? Going by your Tetris Worlds guide, I'd think that single clears are the worthless ones."


    (are you sure you're looking at it right? the guide says clearing a triple's worth of garbage gives 3.75. i'll assume you mean a triple from non-garbage clears, which is worth the least)


    first off, the worlds' guide uses a less accurate formula. Secondly, garbage doesn't send back garbage in worlds, but it does in tds-- so yeah, the values are going to be really different.


    triples do get the least value, but look carefully. a triple is really 3 singles. so, triple = -3, and 3 singles (3*-2.5) = -7.5. what this just means is to use as little line clear as possible if you have to stop making tetrises. if you can get to the next tetris by only clearing 1 line, then just clear that line, but if it'll take three clears, then yeah-- it's worst to clear those three individually.


    "If you can clear a double that immediately opens a tetris hole, that's better than trying to build up to a tetris (wasting time) and then going for 2 tetrises (wasting more time waiting for the needed I piece). Especially if you're pretty high up the screen. At least for me, anyhow, I'd crank out more faster this way because my building slows at the the top of the screen."


    no, it's better to make a btb tetris out of it (you send 9 lines rather than 5). if you're so close to the top that by going for the tetris will top you out, then of course it's better not to, but otherwise don't say you're wasting time-- you're saving tetrominoes, and tetrominoes mean time. if you're about to top out and you don't have any i's coming your way, then i'd say your priorities change-- but i'd be willing to say that the risky player's probably playing the better game.


    anyhow, glad you like everything, Heffenfeffer-- and let me know if you need any more help with anything-- and i'll definitely consider reincorperating "the mantra." [​IMG]
     
  4. I really don't think you should equate tetromino efficiency and time efficiency. It may seem like one implies the other, but that is not necessarily the case... It will slow you down to try and line up back to back tetrises (unless you were lucky and were given a freebie). I say if it's convenient go for the back to back tetrises, because you can do so quickly. If it's inconvenient, even if the screen is safely low, it will slow you down.


    This is perhaps the most valuable lesson I have learned in TGM time attack. It's most important to simply get the pieces out, without thinking too much about them. Maximum line clear efficiency can destroy time efficiency.


    Basically, I think you should be considering "lines of garbage per minute" instead of "pieces per line of garbage". With your tetromino efficiency stance, it would be appropriate to conclude back to back T-spin triples are the best, as they are efficient and take very few tetrominoes. In reality it takes so much extra time to plan these that, despite winning the leverage formula, you are sending fewer lines per minute. What's true for t-spins may hold true in other cases.


    One caveat: "lines per minute" shoudn't be considered in the case that the garbage system is understood, as all lines are not created equal. (ie. sending a teris hole vs sending 4 scrambled lines)
     
  5. what do you mean? yes, i'd agree adding more lines per minute-- ultimately-- will benifit the player more than anything, as it most accurately indicates the player's aggression. but in no case can you equate tetrominoes per minute, what you seem to advocate, with added lines per minute.
     
  6. That's not what I'm advocating. Sure pieces/minute is king in TGM, but I'm not saying that applies to versus in Tetris DS.


    What I am saying is that your whole leverage concept, or pieces/garbage line, doesn't directly relate to garbage lines/minute.
     

Share This Page