Tetris Zone now available for PC

[kbr420]

Hey Guys,


Tetris Zone has been released for windows. Go download it...please http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif !

Those that were in beta, thank you for being apart of it.


Caffeine, sorry, the leaderboard for windows got deleted since it was on a different server. Currently, there is one leaderboard that will now host both PC and Mac scores. So you have to set a new record again.


download from:

http://zone.tetris.com (http://zone.tetris.com/default.htm)

[tepples]

Tetris Zone for Mac requires [...] 256MB of System RAM [...] For PCs, [...] 512MB of System RAM

512 MB of RAM ... for Tetris? http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif

[kbr420]

i really don't know why it requires more. there were more issues doing the pc version vs. the mac.

[M.Bison]

Wow, its finally here!


Thank you


- Jono

[colour_thief]

Call me old fashioned, but will it ever be possible to buy a physical copy of this game?

[sihumchai]

Yeah, I too was wondering about the commercialization. It's free to play?


I wonder if it'll crash on my comp, prolly will.

[K]

what is the purpose of this website ?


tetrisonline (http://www.tetrisonline.com/main.html)

[caffeine]

i don't mind at all about the leaderboard thing. great to see it's all ready now.

[jujube]

Call me old fashioned, but will it ever be possible to buy a physical copy of this game?

sure if you have a cd burner, cd label maker, and a printer for the manual http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif

just got the windows release yesterday, i like it a lot. like tepples said though it takes a lot of memory on your computer (512 mb ram, 64 mb video ram) so i've had to close all other applications while running the game. i also found it helps to close the game every so often then open it again.

[Rosti LFC]

Needs OpenGL, which my graphics card doesn't support without the latest drivers, which I have downloaded, and am seemingly unable to install.

[lee n]

Bought it.. not getting any music in it though. Wonder why.

[Covarr]

I'm downloading it now, and am a bit surprised to see that the installer alone is 41MB. I can only imagine how big it will be once extracted.


I just don't understand how a game that once ran on the Game Boy now requires more space than even the biggest Game Boy Advance game.


Also, the ram thing is baffling.

[caffeine]

I say why the hell not? These are the days of broadband where some games require more than two DVDs to fit on. Why treat Tetris any differently? I'm not saying all that glitters is gold. But if it doesn't hurt, why not?

[kbr420]

what is the purpose of this website ?

tetrisonline (http://www.tetrisonline.com/main.html)

tetrisonline is a new company. they are basically a licensee/developer. they will becoming out with tetris games in the near future.

as for tetris zone being a commercial product, our concept is that we don't want inventory. and due to the majority of people having internet today, its a lot easier to obtain and will cost cheaper than a boxed product.
[/quote]

[kbr420]

for those of you that are experiencing bugs/issues, if you would kindly report them on the tetris zone community forums, we can fix them faster. we are aware of certain issues and are currently fixing them. once an update occurs, you will know, and your game will prompt you to download the latest version.


cheers

[colour_thief]

I agree. For a modern look and sound, space is required. TGM3 fills a DVD, and even if it only used a gigabyte I'm sure many people would gladly give it the hard drive space.


$10 might seem a bit much for a simple game that has no manufacturing, distribution, or beta testing costs. But the leaderboard that looks to be maintained for years to come makes up for this.


The RAM requirement is a little excessive though... I know my PC is getting old, but I just barely meet the minimum requirement. For a Tetris game! http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif

[cdsboy]

This game was good in the early betas for mac. It has gone down hill ever since then. It is not worth the $10. I just played the windows version and it is ugly. Also i am really disapointed in their master mode. To me it feels clicky and not smooth.

[lee n]

It certainly feels like we have paid for a beta version..


I (and more people over at the official forums) have sound problems with the client, I get no music and no sound effects. The only sound I seem to be getting is the occasional "level up" whisper.


This is something that should've been ironed out before launch. I even applied for the beta test but was never accepted into it.


And yeah, it's not exactly full 60 fps either. I'm pretty disappointed.

[herc]

tetriszone uses openAL (just look into the .exe) -- openAL is known causing problems with onboard sound cards. if one could switch to


"generic software"


via an option, most users could just hear normal sound. only the "generic hardware" modes of openAL are mostly broken with cheap onboard or other older / cheap pci-soundcards.


if you want to test if you COULD hear sound with openAL, if you COULD switch to generic software mode, you may test with http://www.gravytris.de (http://www.gravytris.de/default.htm) under "options" -> "audio". just switch between the different modes and check the effect. and please let me know you even with gravytris cant hear something...

[lee n]

tetriszone uses openAL (just look into the .exe) -- openAL is known causing problems with onboard sound cards.

That's all we need to know really.. the sound issues are due to sloppy programming, not a fault in the hardware like they wanted to make it sound like on the official forums.

[kbr420]

I'm sorry that all of you are experiencing these problems. We are working on it as fast as we can. The programmer for windows isn't the same programmer that made the mac version. We are using consultants for the porting from mac to pc.

Once again, we are truly sorry for the known issues.


Hardware cannot be an issue unless there isn't enough memory. If it can run on my macbook with on board audio and grafx, it shows that onboard can work.

[herc]

tetriszone uses openAL (just look into the .exe) -- openAL is known causing problems with onboard sound cards.
That's all we need to know really.. the sound issues are due to sloppy programming, not a fault in the hardware like they wanted to make it sound like on the official forums.


you cant blame the programmers over this. its really a problem with WINDOWS and poor sound card drivers. openAL uses - in "generic hardware" mode - Directsound3D. but many onboard soundcards and other cheaper pci-soundcards just seem to have crappy drivers regarding 3D sound. so you must really blame the hardware vendors of your soundcard.


on the other hand - with a bit more testing of the win32 port of tetris-zone they should have noticed the problem and should have implemented the workaround of disabling hardware 3d sound acceleration and should have switched to "generic software" mode instead, as this one seems to run on most systems.

[lee n]

you cant blame the programmers over this.

Yes I can, I've never had sound not working on my sound card before and hence it should not happen in this case.


The fact that it did indicates sloppy programming and/or lazy testing. If it was a hardware problem, then it should have been mentioned on the system requirements list, it wasn't. My system passed the requirements, but it's not working properly. So yes, I can blame the developers for that.

[tepples]

Fun facts about resource use by Tetris products:

Tetris (NES): 48 KB ROM, 4 KB RAM. Tetris (GB): 32 KB ROM, 16 KB RAM. Tetris DX (GBC): 512 KB ROM, 16 KB RAM (in monochrome mode) or 48 KB RAM (in color mode). Tetris DS: 32768 KB SSD, 5120 KB RAM. (DS cards are solid-state disks, unlike earlier Game Paks that used byte-addressed ROM. Like on PC, and unlike on previous cartridge based systems, code must first be copied to RAM in order to run.)
Tetris Zone requires 100 times the RAM of Tetris DS. Does Windows eat up the other 99 percent of RAM?

[cdsboy]

Ya i have the sound issue too. And i am not blaming the programmers. I'm blaming the company. They choose to release a game that isn't anywhere close to being finished. It makes no sense to me. It doesn't make them look very good when they release the game like that and it sucks. Thank god i got my key in the beta not payed for it.

[lee n]

Nonetheless, this is not acceptable. It feels like I wasted 10 bucks, and I really would like my money back.


There are other versions of Tetris I can play instead, and they all work as intended unlike Tetris Zone.

[kbr420]

Lee,


I'm sorry you feel that way and once again I apologize on behalf of the company. I haven't been in touch with the dev of zone since the mac release. I can tell you that if you want your money back, TRY and contact the support email and notify them of your problem and that you would like a refund. It isn't my dept, so I cannot guarantee you anything. If not, you could wait till the issues are fixed.

[lee n]

TRY and contact the support email and notify them of your problem and that you would like a refund.
I'll do that.

If not, you could wait till the issues are fixed.

You gotta understand though, if you pay for something you want it to work as intended immediately, not "maybe it'll work later".. that's not acceptable.


I can rebuy the game, (if i still feel like it by then) once they have fixed the problems. But right now I'm incredibly turned off by the whole Tetris Zone thing.. I have played many bad clones in my days, but you kinda expect a game with the "authentic Tetris game" seal to have a quality production. The fact that it doesn't just saddens me.


The game should still be in beta, it wasn't ready for a release..

[cdsboy]

The game should still be in beta, it wasn't ready for a release..


The ironic thing is the mac beta ran 2x better then the current release.

[lee n]

.. at least the customer support was good, there didn't seem to be any problems with me asking for a refund. They asked for some personal information that I used when signing up and then they were going to forward my request to the Finance Department.


Maybe I'll re-buy Tetris Zone in a few months should they have fixed the problems by then, but for now I'll just stick to playing Tetris games that work.


And a word to kbr420 and the people over at Blue Planet Software, us Tetris fans tend to be very picky about Tetris, we take this seriously and so should you - so try harder.

[jujube]

i saw Jono put up a 47s time in sprint mode http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif nice game.


@Jono, caffeine, mat, Billmaan:

how would you say it compares to LJ 40 line mode? it seems like your times are a tad slower in tetris zone, but this could be due to slower DAS or being unfamiliar to subtleties in the movement of the pieces. i'm stuck at 1:17 and it's going to take a lot of practice to catch up with you guys. i'm not much of a tapper so that could be my problem. also i think the line clear graphics throw me off a little so i'm pausing and reassessing the situation constantly.

[M.Bison]

i saw Jono put up a 47s time in sprint mode, nice game.
Cheers mate, compliments are always welcome

how would you say it compares to LJ 40 line mode?
Tetris zone's DAS does not even seem half as responsive as LJ, I also find that when the sound lags so do the pieces.

it seems like your times are a tad slower in tetris zone
Lol, a tad? Over 12 seconds.
The main problem I have is dropping the "I' piece in the column second from the far right, I have done it more than 4 times in the one game! http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_evil.gif

i'm not much of a tapper so that could be my problem

That shouldn't really be an issue, tapping is slower than perfect timing.



All in all I must say I am not overly pleased in Tetris Zone, It should have been made suitable for already "adapted players", I mean even Cultris has fast and slow DAS.

I also think you pay for what you get though and $10 is a bargain in this case http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

- Jono

[herc]

how much worth then is LJ or heboris? any lesser because it does not got that "authentic" (hahaha) branding name? i think your money would be better spend on developers that actually listen to what the gamers want and not what an arbitrary guideline enforces....


"We choose partners that we think can move the IP forward, in other words make Tetris a better game. So we have two kinds of licenses: ones that makes us money, and one that helps move Tetris forward" ( http://tinyurl.com/2vcrco )

just one of a collection of arrogant statements in just one interview that makes me http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_evil.gif

[mat]

speaking of heboris, i updated to the neweset version a couple days ago and the thing is effing beautiful. i could do without those backgrounds that they have choesn, but its trivial to replace them with something better when i get around to it. playing TZ is really frustrating, there is a lot of speed inconsistency and no fps meter. the huge line clear fanfare makes it very difficult to see the shadow of the next piece, which is really frustrating for someone like me who isn't really accustomed with SRS (which still sucks btw). the master leaderboard doesn't record time, so its crap. the sprint leaderboard doesn't reflect the skill of the plalyers. the music restarts every time your game does, which, if you are attempting a sprint run, is minimum once a minute, often much more, as you have to restart because of misdrops all the time--and i am so sick of the randomizer giving me SZ starts--if you're trying to do sprint this just means you have to hit restart! TZ installed is 60mb as compared to 30 for heboris (15 for hebo lite) and this game has 0 features. if this were a free web based flash game that someone had posted here in the forums, i would be explaining how you need to make it WAY better than this. of course, i said all of this on the beta forums months ago and no one even responded. apparently they have some imaginary test group that really likes playing super limited score based modes and prefers flashy line clears to consistent frame rates. oh, and they don't want ANY features. not even multiplayer. not even hotseat multiplayer. we need to stop talking about this game, because it is so effing inferior to TGM/TGM2/TGM3/TDS/Heboris/LJ/JM even worlds had multiple game modes. having an automatically updated leaderboard does not make it worth it. tepples, how bout you get on creating an LJ leaderboard that automatically posts, and then BPS will have nothing to hang over your head.

[Rosti LFC]

I think the reason the likes of LJ and Heboris tend to be so good is that they're made out of love for Tetris. No ulterior motives.


Then again, there's a whole hoard of crap Tetris fan-games out there.

[tepples]

I think the reason the likes of LJ and Heboris tend to be so good is that they're made out of love for Tetris.

Almost. LJ is made out of love for the Soviet Mind Game, regardless of brand, and out of a desire to show the ramifications of what Mr. Rogers and his company have done to it this decade.

[caffeine]

jujube, times are slower because of line clear delay, DAS, and some frame droppage.


"the sprint leaderboard doesn't reflect the skill of the plalyers." eh...

[jujube]

the master leaderboard doesn't record time, so its crap.there are already 2 modes that reward speed play (challenge and sprint). i don't really see a problem with there being a 20g mode in which the focus is on points. with the decreasing lock delay tetrises become very difficult to get, much more than in TDS 20g. it sounds like you're suggesting there be a "20g sprint" mode in addition to the current modes.


gokano - Master Cleared (6:41) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkofpSoqdzU)


you can't say it doesn't take dedication to do that.

[kbr420]

And a word to kbr420 and the people over at Blue Planet Software, us Tetris fans tend to be very picky about Tetris, we take this seriously and so should you - so try harder.


Trust me when I say this. All of your requests (TC Users and personal) have been suggested and pushed during the dev of this product. I was getting shut down due to the fact that this game isn't intended only for "hardocre users". And like I said, I wasn't a big part in the windows port.


Things I dislike about the game:

Movement Speeds, Delays

Generation,

Line Clear Animations,

Slow ass marathon

and those stupid points that pop up in the screen when you clear a line, it kind of interrupts the damn ghost piece

[lee n]

I was getting shut down due to the fact that this game isn't intended only for "hardocre users".

Does it say somewhere in the Tetris guideline that you have to piss off fans of the series? I mean, we're not really that hard to please, include a few extra options for the "hardcore users" and everyone is happy. Hide the options if you feel that it would confuse casual players, but don't ignore requests of fans - that's ridiculous.


I know The Tetris Company frown upon the idea of Tetris fan games, but us fans have to play those games to get what we want. What other developer scare away their most loyal part of the fan base? It's unheard of..


*shrugs* It just makes me sad.

[herc]

@lee N: dont be too angry.. i think tetris zone is totally oriented towards the casual gamer. i am by myself sort of one, i wouldnt even know about highspeed tetris modes if i hadnt stumble upon this forum just by luck / chance. if i would have tested tetris zone 1 year ago, i wouldnt have missed anything. (besides sound http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif ) but now, hooked a bit to 20g / master mode, (damn addictive) i can understand your points..

tetris zone by itself is asolid small and polished game with nice sound effects and graphics well above the average tetris clone. ihave no problem whatsoever with tetris company defining their own standards, guidelines and making games according to their ideas (broad target audience , i.e. casual gamers etc) but whats not ok is to supress others who may target hardcore gamers. actually i think its rather hopeless to request a licence as an indie developer... because:


"We choose partners that we think can move the IP forward, in other words make Tetris a better game. So we have two kinds of licenses: ones that makes us money, and one that helps move Tetris forward" http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_confused.gif
thats the way it is with big business.

[lee n]

I'm not angry really, just disappointed.


As for making money, I asked for my money back so they didn't make any money on me on Tetris Zone. I fully understand the casual aspect of gaming, but would it really be that bad to include a few options to make a game appeal to the hardcore audience aswell? Diversity must be better than niche, no?


Oh well, one day I hope to be able to afford a TAP machine, then I'm pretty much set as far as Tetris games go.


And I don't agree on Tetris Zone being polished, at least not the Windows version.

[mat]

"the sprint leaderboard doesn't reflect the skill of the plalyers." eh...

i was referring to the dropped frames, slow DAS, and long line clears. fast times are still awesome, but i'd say your LJ 40 line is more impressive and a better reflection of your skill than your TZ 40 line.


mr. kbrpothead--perhaps you would like to put forth some insight as to why a game as polished and "hardcore centric" as heboris would not simply be given the official seal and sold in the exact same $10 download fashion as TZ with official leaderboards? you could even use those fancy TZ graphics if you'd like. isn't that pure profit for the company and pure enjoyment for the fans?

ultimately i don't really care, because i can still just go play heboris, but what is the BPS incentive to avoid licensing "real" tetris games for the PC? is it to maintain DS sales and Ti arcade domination? and if so, is there a 5 year wait or what?

[caffeine]

i personally am a believer that if a game is to be successful in the long term, it must be designed according to top level play. it's the same reason that scrabble sells more than candy land. it's huge casual base is reflected by it's ability to appeal to tournament players.

[mat]

well said.

[kbr420]

matt,

There are many steps into making a game an "official tetris product"...

Licensee and licensor agreements, and royalties needs to be made (just to name a few). If whoever created heboris would like, they can TRY to contact TTC for a license. However, currently, Tetris Online has the rights for downloadable content. So one would have to sub license to them. No one is stopping anyone from making a game official. It needs to have the quality behind it to even be considered though.


We often try to give the licensees the benefit and try not to clash product sales with one another. However, Tetris Zone is one of the first based american Tetris downloadble product.

[kbr420]

Including options for advanced settings sounds awesome. I will go ahead and push for that. THe only problem is, the Tetris game is premade by an engine and idk if the client will be able to tweak with the premade settings.

[mat]

wow, that is some serious commitment to issue obfuscation.

[lee n]

If whoever created heboris would like, they can TRY to contact TTC for a license.
I don't think the original developer is involved in Heboris anymore, the original binary hasn't been touched in 5-6 years as far as I know.. now it's just various people over at 2ch modding the script files for the game.

THe only problem is, the Tetris game is premade by an engine and idk if the client will be able to tweak with the premade settings.

That sounds.. backwards.

[tepples]

Minna no Soft Series: Tetris Advance (http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/../wiki/index.php/Minna_no_Soft_Series_3A_Tetris_Advance) has six options:

Ghost piece: on/off Hold: on/off Rotation system: buggy SRS/Game Boy Infinite spin: on/off Preview: 6/1 Background animations: on/off
A "pre-made engine" can still have hooks. It can either expose a set of methods (setRotationSystem, setLockdownRule, setSidewaysSpeed, etc.), or it can expose a single method (unpackOptions) that takes a struct defining advanced options.

[Covarr]

I'm pretty glad that I only downloaded the trial instead of paying for Tetris Zone. I may very well get it in a few years if all the speed issues are worked out, but for now I'll just stick with LOCKJAW (And Tetris DS, but not as much because it won't play on my GBA or PC).

[jujube]

Master Mode level 20 lock delay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KawVouU5t_4)

youtube resized the video http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_mad.gif it isn't supposed to be that wide.

looks like 250ms to me.


edit: link is to corrected video

[tepples]

youtube resized the video http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_mad.gif it isn't supposed to be that wide.

Yeah, YouTube will screw with anything that isn't 4:3. If you can, pad it out to 4:3 with VirtualDub or something.

[jujube]

good idea. Camtasia worked just fine.

Master Mode Level 20 Lock Delay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KawVouU5t_4)

[jujube]

Nobody (http://shutter05.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/07/004/2C/7D/7D/F5/AKLrlkbtAVIPTj27Zc4mvm+pifDMxEwm0300.jpg) is better than me in sprint mode http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif

[kbr420]

lol

[herc]

concerning Wii-Tetris: a nice article:


http://onnintendo.com/Index.aspx?page=1 ... 06&month=9 (http://onnintendo.com/Index.aspx?page=1&post=59&year=2006&month=9)

[colour_thief]

concerning Wii-Tetris: a nice article:

http://onnintendo.com/Index.aspx?page=1 ... 06&month=9 (http://onnintendo.com/Index.aspx?page=1&post=59&year=2006&month=9)


That's interesting and all, but I think you meant to post this in a different thread. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

[herc]

hmm, posted it here, because of kbr's vague statement of an eventual wii-title... but whatever thread would fit better (is there a wii-tetris-thread already?), please admins move the postings to there.

[K]

matt,
There are many steps into making a game an "official tetris product"...
Licensee and licensor agreements, and royalties needs to be made (just to name a few). If whoever created heboris would like, they can TRY to contact TTC for a license. However, currently, Tetris Online has the rights for downloadable content. So one would have to sub license to them. No one is stopping anyone from making a game official. It needs to have the quality behind it to even be considered though.

We often try to give the licensees the benefit and try not to clash product sales with one another. However, Tetris Zone is one of the first based american Tetris downloadble product.
You mean that there is several company entity to contact depending of the features we want to implement ?


i personally am a believer that if a game is to be successful in the long term, it must be designed according to top level play. it's the same reason that scrabble sells more than candy land. it's huge casual base is reflected by it's ability to appeal to tournament players. .

i agree for"a game" but not for Tetris, THE universalis casual game. Top sales customer segmentation don't know anything about top level play and it is not a viable business on the long run to introduce them to.

[tepples]

I search for Tetris online on Google. The first ten results are Miniclip Neave Miniclip 2DPlay Absolutist Alex-soft Server not responding Neave Tetris Online 404 Applet not found I search for Tetris online on Yahoo!. The first ten results are Misnamed page (list of games, none of them SMG, but two Google ads refer to Tetris) Neave JavaScript game that doesn't appear to work in IE or Firefox Gamespot review of Tetris Worlds Miniclip IGN review of Tetris DS Tetris Online Xbox.com product page for Tetris Worlds Absolutist Some other random Tengen-style clone

As for Tetris Online the company, the interview with Mr. Rogers (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/specialArt.cfm?artid=11267) doesn't explain much either:

We're actually creating the versions of Tetris that are going to be online for all platforms. It is its own business now. You know who it's running that? I'll leave that teaser for you. (Editor's note: Tetris Online is headed by Henk Rogers and Minoru Arakawa, the former President of Nintendo of America.)

[jujube]

http://zone.tetris.com/client_leaderboard

513300 in master mode

come on, i know a few people here can beat that. unless they're chicken...cluck cluck cluck KABAK cluck cluck

[kbr420]

http://zone.tetris.com/client_leaderboard
513300 in master mode
come on, i know a few people here can beat that. unless they're chicken...cluck cluck cluck KABAK cluck cluck


I beat you!

[jujube]

http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif i didn't know you were TETRiSMaster! that was a great game you had to get to 589000, i've watched it a few times. it's going to take a bunch of t-spins and probably 45 tetrises to beat that (as i never expect to get 50 tetrises). ok..um..well can anyone else beat me http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

[lee n]

New version released and there are still sound issues. I also noticed that there's no support for joysticks (as I bought one recently (http://nihon.se/vshg.jpg)).


I'm so happy I asked for (and got) my money back.

[jujube]

http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/../wiki/images/b/bb/Challenge.JPG
sorry jono, i really am http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif

it was cold and calculated http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif heh not really, just made a bunch of t-spins.

[Needle]

wait, it's actually .002 seconds longer than exactly ten minutes?

[colour_thief]

There's no way the game is that accurate... Anything that isn't a frame multiple of time is guaranteed to fake accuracy. Given that the game is probably running at 60 fps, it has the balls to report that the game lasted exactly 0.12 frames more than 10 minutes.


What the crap is 0.12 frames? A frame is either rendered or isn't.

[jujube]

the game must be running at 500 fps http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif
or, they use a GPS electrical laser refractor/defractor timing system accurate to .001s which represents how long you're REALLY playing. are they this committed?

[Needle]

maybe it's running on a time-based model rather than a frame-based one, and has the game cycle decoupled from rendering the screen?

[tepples]

What the crap is 0.12 frames? A frame is either rendered or isn't.

To expand on what Needle said: The hard drop key that ends the game can be pressed halfway through the frame. This can be measured using the high-resolution timers provided by the OS (e.g. QueryPerformanceCounter).

[Cubicz]

I can't see a paypal option on the purchase screen, which means I have no way of paying. Any plans to add it in? or can we sort something temporary out?

[Cubicz]

nevermind! im retarded, and it can be done.

[jujube]

ahh good to be back http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

just letting everyone know that Tetris Zone lets you watch replays now. you can watch your best game in each mode, best of the day, and soon best of all time. i downloaded the new version and everything is working fine. oh, and after playing a lot of TOJ i would say the DAS is definitely faster in TZ.

[kbr420]

Like the new update? I heard the leaderboards will get reset though, sorry.


not to hijack the thread, but how did you manage to get a TOJ account? Isn't it only for people based in Japan?

And yes, TOJ's DAS is ridiculously SLOW! I can hit the keys faster than it repeats...

[tepples]

but how did you manage to get a TOJ account? Isn't it only for people based in Japan?

Internet Protocol address geolocation can be fooled if somebody in Japan sets up you the proxy.

[jujube]

but how did you manage to get a TOJ account? Isn't it only for people based in Japan?
Internet Protocol address geolocation can be fooled if somebody in Japan sets up you the proxy.
yeah what he said.

Like the new update? I heard the leaderboards will get reset though, sorry.
that's ok, i'll just have to wait before i break 600,000 in master mode http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif

And yes, TOJ's DAS is ridiculously SLOW! I can hit the keys faster than it repeats...

tapping is too much work for me so i've been using a gamepad. in multiplayer i can still hit over 30 LPM (with a few soft drops) but some people are getting close to 40.

[Pineapple]

but how did you manage to get a TOJ account? Isn't it only for people based in Japan?
Internet Protocol address geolocation can be fooled if somebody in Japan sets up you the proxy.

That plus getting through a CAPTCHA in hiragana...

[Rosti LFC]

but how did you manage to get a TOJ account? Isn't it only for people based in Japan?
Internet Protocol address geolocation can be fooled if somebody in Japan sets up you the proxy.
That plus getting through a CAPTCHA in hiragana...


All you really have to do is fail miserably and rely on the generosity of others to make an account for you. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif

Thanks again Jujube http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[mat]

And yes, TOJ's DAS is ridiculously SLOW! I can hit the keys faster than it repeats...


i came to the conclusion that you actually can't hit faster than the DAS. unless that's changed. it is still in your best interest to tap, as the time spent charging DAS is eliminated. actual best interest is a macro that kicks in taps after a shorter period than the DAS charge. either way it's an infuriating nail in an otherwise pristine (albeit L-shaped) coffin.


also:

registering with TOJ is a far less strenuous test of one's resourcefulnesses than the acquisition of some other elusive tetris games... now, if TOJ actually checked your IP every time you logged on/while you were playing, things might be a little bit more difficult. as it stands, the only thing they care about is registration.

[Rosti LFC]

now, if TOJ actually checked your IP every time you logged on/while you were playing, things might be a little bit more difficult. as it stands, the only thing they care about is registration.


I don't see why they'd do that.


Really, I don't see why they've got the IP thing. I understand why they wouldn't bother putting the money in to translate it and release it in places outside of Japan, but I don't see why they'd stop anyone willing to just soldier on with the Japanese text. If people are willing to put up with not understanding things to play it, I say they should let them.

[jujube]

ahem... some guy named Alexey Pajitnov was asked a question in an interview...


GSUK: What do you consider to be the definitive version of Tetris?


AP: I'm not sure if it's still available, but Tetris Zone from Blue Planet Software. It accommodates all the rules in the bible. Before that, we considered the original game to be the best standard.


http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gifhttp://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

[kotetsu213]

*cough*

[Needle]

What is it with the "official" guys regulating licensee products so much, then remaining so oblivious to the rule implementation status of a product (TDS - T-spin inclusion - Henk Rogers), or even the availability of a product (TZ - Alexei Pazhitnov)? Sure different people in the company might handle different matters, but still.

[caffeine]

i can see pajitnov being out of the loop, but you're right, that was pretty crazy that rogers didn't know about t-spins in tds, especially since he indicated playing the game in that same interview.

[colour_thief]

My running theory is that they're too distracted by their giant piles of money to pay too much attention. Every now and then, when they feel like they should "take things to the next level", they meet and spend a relatively small amount of time making half-assed poorly conceived plans. Then, they go back to their giant piles of money and let other people try and make their hideous vision a reality.


Well, maybe that only applies to Henk Rogers. I'm sure he's the single person who has made the most money off of tetris, and possibly his wife is the second. And Pajitnov actually tries to make other non-tetris games the rest of the time. I'm not just saying this because I don't like Henk either. If you consider the Tetris Worlds whistleblower thing, it's very obvious he had a very hands off approach 7 years ago, and his additional millions of dollars has surely only made him lazier. Does anyone else remember his interview in Edge magazine where the dude plays himself off as a god of game design, and he mentions plans of making some figureskating action game because girls are an untapped market? That sounds like an awesome idea. Where's our figureskating game Henk? The world still needs it and with the DS there has never been a more viable platform for it. The self-described "Master Game Designer" has done jack shit since he started milking tetris.

[kbr420]

cmon guys, no need for this kind of discussion. FYI Alexey, Henk and the rest of the members of TTC are apart of most designs of Tetris products whether its internal or from licensees. ALexey was with us in the design part of Tetris Zone...


Henk knows T-spins especially in DS, he's the one that created it

[caffeine]

I was talking about how Henk didn't know that T-Spins were in Tetris DS.

Henk's words from Tetris from the Top (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/specialArt.cfm?artid=11267):


"And if people catch on…do you know what a T-spin is? No, it probably doesn't exist in this product."


"The T-spin is a new move we introduced in Tetris Battle. I don't think Yamagami used it in Tetris DS, I'm not sure, but it's not one of the things in Mission." [TTC actually introduced T-Spins three years earlier in The New Tetris, right?]


and he noted later on:


"The only complaint I have is that when I play somebody online, it's hit or miss. I could get a slow player, or a weak player. We have uneven games, and that's a problem."


So a lot of us have trouble with this interview because of Henk's ignorance of his own ideas. I mean, he's all about T-Spins, but if he had played against other players online in Tetris DS, and he didn't realize that T-Spins were in the game, then we can deduce that he still must be going for Tetrises. He hasn't adapted to the very rule he created, and I for one think that's pretty fucked up.

[mat]

cmon guys, no need for this kind of discussion. FYI Alexey, Henk and the rest of the members of TTC are apart of most designs of Tetris products whether its internal or from licensees. ALexey was with us in the design part of Tetris Zone...

Henk knows T-spins especially in DS, he's the one that created it


this is one of those situations where a space completely changes the intended statement. i'm assuming you meant to say that they were a part of the development.


and i disagree strongly. i'd say this "kind" of discussion is pretty important for those of us who feel strongly about the game.

[colour_thief]

kbr420, I'm not being mean for the sake of being mean. I have sources for all of it:


http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/spec ... rtid=11267 (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/specialArt.cfm?artid=11267)

After its release, Henk Rogers has no idea if Tetris DS included t-spins.


http://www.blueplanetsoftware.com/news_edge.html

In 1999, Henk Rogers declared Blue Planet Software "more than just a Tetris Company," specifically mentioning a figure skating game. In 8 years, nothing of consequence (un-tetris related) has been released by BPS.


http://www.mobygames.com/game/tetris-worlds

In 2001 for the release of Tetris Worlds, Henk Rogers chose to credit himself as Master Designer. Why the title "Lead Designer" wasn't good enough for him, the world may never know.


http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ACS25DTI

In 2004, one of Tetris Worlds's programmers blew the whistle on the game's flawed development and Henk Roger's incompetence in particular. Unfortunately, this article was on the FatBabies.com website, which is now defunct, so instead you'll have to view this archived PDF.


http://www.greatergoodradio.com/?p=59

In a 2005 interview with Greater Good Radio, Henk Rogers revealed that when Blue Lava Wireless was sold to JAMDAT for $137 million dollars, he and his wife personally pocketed $50 million each.


http://www.gamespot.com/news/6181946.html

Quite recently, Pajitnov revealed his ignorance over whether Tetris Zone, a game released less than 1 year ago, was actually still sold.


http://www.gdmag.com/archive/sep06.htm

It's not free, but the September 2006 issue of Game Developer Magazine has an interview with Pajitnov where he displays fairly strong ignorance of the TGM series.



---



Henk Rogers could be a great guy in real life. He is certainly fiercely passionate about Hawaii and the University of Hawaii in particular. That's great. But he demonstrates a distinct lack of passion for Tetris (not to mention game development in general), taking the game far less seriously than many of the top players would like.


Alexey is definitely a very likeable guy, as he radiates happiness in his interviews. He is passionate about puzzle games, coming up with novel designs to this day. However, he has clearly lost passion for the game of Tetris, having even described his current involvement with the game as strictly work not pleasure.


I don't doubt these guys are nice people in real life. I don't doubt these guys still love Tetris in their hearts. But they have definitely lost their passion, and seeing people without passion running things makes us, the passionate players, sad.

[mat]

the truth.

[cdsboy]

Colour Thief you lead a very compelling argument.

[kbr420]

Caffeine, thanks for the links, I never knew he said that. I only say this from things he's told us when DS was in dev. I understand where u guys are comin from, and to tell you the truth, they are still very passionate about the game and its brand, I know I am.


Let me say this, they aren't developing the game for us top players...that is something that I myself don't like. They are trying to bring in new players and meet the market of the casual gamer. If it was up to me, DAS would be near instant, generation would be 0, etc...


Oh another thing, someone mentioned Henks love for Univ. of Hawaii, we are actually having a Tetris tournament there for the next two weeks. If anyone of you are UH Students (i dont think anyone here is though) go check out http://www.tetriscup.com (http://www.tetriscup.com/default.htm)

[colour_thief]

For the record kbr420, I think you're alright. It's nice to know at least one tetris employee can relate to us and have some understanding of what skilled players want. Tetris Zone, love it or hate it, you've got to respect that it tries to appeal to stronger players.


I just wish that those in charge were interested in more than increasing the market share by appealing to the lowest common denominator. You call that passion, but to the rest of us it looks like a money grab.


larger audience = more $$$

tight gameplay = passion for the game


The 2 are not mutually exclusive, and they should learn that.

[Rosti LFC]

I have no qualms about paying more money. If the Tetris game is good enough, I'm quite happy to pay more money for it than I would have to with other games, providing the levels don't become extortionate.


For me the largest failing with Tetris DS and the newer Tetris games is the abuse of move reset in the lock delay to allow infinite rotation and movement, even at 20G. I've yet to read one review of a Tetris game that implements it that thinks it's beneficial to the game, and I don't either.

Step reset or finite lock delay is the way to go. I believe Tetris Zone implements the latter, which is good, but I'm unable to play it, so I'm not certain.


I understand what Mr Rogers says about Time-Attack, but if you're going to have a time attack mode, you could make gravity zero, and it'd have a similar effect. Tetris DS doesn't even have a time-attack mode as such, and still implements the infinite rotation. The only mode which could be seen as similar to time-attack, the multiplayer, actually has it removed after you've been keeping a piece active for more than a few seconds.


For single player, I believe the TGM Master Mode is the style of gameplay that should be incorporated into all games. Something that only the really good players can actually complete, unlike Tetris DS Marathon, which requires very little skill in comparison.

[Needle]

IIRC, Zone limits the number of times the lockdown count can be reset, but still uses move/rotate-reset in all modes.

[jujube]

IIRC, Zone limits the number of times the lockdown count can be reset, but still uses move/rotate-reset in all modes.
you're right. from the TZ support page:

"For Marathon and Challenge modes, up to 15 movements or rotations are allowed before Lock Down immediately occurs. For Master mode, up to 10 movements or rotations are allowed. For Sprint mode, an infinite number of movements or rotations are allowed."

For me the largest failing with Tetris DS and the newer Tetris games is the abuse of move reset in the lock delay to allow infinite rotation and movement, even at 20G. I've yet to read one review of a Tetris game that implements it that thinks it's beneficial to the game, and I don't either. Step reset or finite lock delay is the way to go. I believe Tetris Zone implements the latter, which is good, but I'm unable to play it, so I'm not certain.
fortunately Tetris Zone master mode has decreasing lock delay (move reset) as you advance through the levels. i think this is a step in the right direction.

For single player, I believe the TGM Master Mode is the style of gameplay that should be incorporated into all games. Something that only the really good players can actually complete, unlike Tetris DS Marathon, which requires very little skill in comparison.

i don't think you would like TZ marathon much http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif it's pretty much TDS marathon minus levels 16-20 plus a questionable scoring system (it doesn't matter what kinds of line clears you make as long as you do something good at the end of each level).

[Billmaan]

i don't think you would like TZ marathon much http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif it's pretty much TDS marathon minus levels 16-20 plus a questionable scoring system (it doesn't matter what kinds of line clears you make as long as you do something good at the end of each level).It's actually worse than that. Unless the scoring system has changed since the game was released (haven't played for quite a while, so I wouldn't know) it's actually best to clear singles up until the end of every level. The idea is to exploit the chaining reward -- if you chain together two singles, you get bonus points for the second, but no bonus lines.


So yeah, it's a scoring system in which you're actually encouraged to clear singles. (Except at the end of every round, where you try to set up a TSD or whatever.)

[caffeine]

doesn't matter what type of line clear it is. it could be singe-double, tetris-triple, as long as it doesn't go over combo 1

[Billmaan]

doesn't matter what type of line clear it is. it could be singe-double, tetris-triple, as long as it doesn't go over combo 1Ah, but if you clear only singles you get 50 bonus points for every two lines cleared. If you cleared only tetrises, you'd get 50 bonus points for every eight lines cleared (edit: sixteen, actually -- forgot that zone effectively treats a tetris as an eight line clear). So to maximize your total combo bonus, you have to stick to clearing singles.

[caffeine]

oh i see now.

[jujube]

http://zone.tetris.com/page/leaderboard

601,500 points in master mode http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

WAAAAAAHHHH!

[Chaos]

Well from what I've been told, this tournament at the University of Hawaii is just a first step towards bigger things. I heard that they plan to return to the university next spring (that's if I hear correctly) and that they are also planning to host state-wide tournaments. And for the future, they plan to host tournaments at campuses all over the nation. So I'm treating this tournament here in Hawaii like a first step to something that will be epic later on.

[Udy]

Just like to point out I'm gradually creeping up the Marathon leaderboard thanks to some top tips from this very forum.


I wont rest until Jujube is overthrown http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

[jujube]

practice those yoshihiros (http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/../wiki/index.php?title=Yoshihiro_SD_Setups):D

easiest way is to use J or L and platform over whatever mess you might have when your goal is 3. i watched some of your last replay and saw you were getting a TSD at goal 1, but no back-to-back bonus. i think you'll find it's actually not any harder to make 2 T-spins with a yoshihiro than to make 1 improvised TSD.


edit: 4 second improvement today in sprint W0oT

[Udy]

nice one, I had noticed that tactic being used and was planning on switching to it once I had got more comfortable with T-spins. now I'm confident with them that's exactly the method I'll be using going forward. nice one on the sprint, I find that real hard.

[jujube]

it run just fiiiine on the Win-dows 2000 with the 256 mego-bytes of RAM. yuuup.