Hebo video removed for copyright infringements?

[cdsboy]

Apparently a person going by the name of ??????? decided that my hebo video infringed on his copyright... It used muf's image pack i believe but idk if thats part of it. Is anyone else getting their videos taken down by this guy?

[muf]

????????? means "Arika, inc.", and yes, I got my vid removed as well. This might be the start of something bigger, like they've done on nicovideo. It might be an idea to start hamstering Ti videos and other superplays off YouTube, because it might not end here.


EDIT: I've gotten confirmed that not just videos using copyrighted sounds/music have been taken down, but anything that has "Heboris" in the title. Something which is quite interesting, as Arika doesn't own any copyright to any part of Heboris. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif

[DIGITAL]

I'm seriously pissed off. All of my public Heboris videos were taken down...

[Meroigo]

Can they own copyright on how TGM is put together to form the unique TGM feeling/experience? I mean the combination of colors, rotation system, level system etc. Clones of TGM are copies of the TGM concept.

[Zaphod77]

It's VERY possible.


And honestly, can we really say it's not within the spirit of copyright for them to act? Since the cloneing is so blatant. It's not just copying tetris, it's copying THEIR tetris.


On the other hand, the only reason we need to play unofficial clones is that they can't sell us the official product, due to TTC.


So I can't really get too mad at Arika here.

[DIGITAL]

Act or not, this will be a futile attempt that will only agitate the fanbase, which will make a rebound in some other way. I'm making ALL my videos private from this point onwards.

[Deniax]

It's not just copying tetris, it's copying THEIR tetris.In what does cloning TGM differ from what people have done for years, cloning Tetris?


I don't see specific issues that TGM can have copyright at what TTC already has covered

[muf]

I recall Alexey having problems in particular with Games that had "ris" at the end of their name. It might be that along that vein, Heboris is the only one they can really go after, because it's such a blatant clone.

[LOst]

The Heboris netplay news must have scared Arika or something.

[caffeine]

Slow it down a notch--took down videos from where?

[DIGITAL]

Youtube.

[kiwibonga]

From the top shelf of my VHS rack! :OOOO


Yeah, that's very odd... How does Japanese copyright/patent law work?

[caffeine]

I recall Alexey having problems in particular with Games that had "ris" at the end of their name. It might be that along that vein, Heboris is the only one they can really go after, because it's such a blatant clone.


In the past, these disputes have always been about the trademark. Games ending in "tris" and i guess "ris" are a no-no. Seeing how they threatened tetrinet2 as well, "tetri" is likely a no-no as well.


But I can definitely see why they would take down videos with copyrighted images and sounds (see stickied thread: No rom or copyrighted media distribution). That brings me to my next thought. Are gameplay videos okay for people to upload without permission in the first place? I've never heard of a company taking down gameplay videos just because it's their game, but I think they could if they wanted to. It would be similar to Metallica VS. Napster in that it would just piss everyone off and make them hate the company, though.


Yall should've known better since this has happened before. Just make an alternate graphics and sound pack, and slip the replay into that folder whenever you want to make a video. Easy.

[DIGITAL]

They're taking down all Heboris videos it seems, regardless of whether the videos contain copyrighted material or not.

[colour_thief]

This sucks. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif

Yall should've known better since this has happened before. Just make an alternate graphics and sound pack, and slip the replay into that folder whenever you want to make a video. Easy.


Reread the thread, _all_ heboris videos are gone, original sound/art or otherwise. Have Texmaster videos been hit yet? Something tells me they'll let non-clone videos stay... Otherwise surely they would have removed the first Ti GM video from youtube ages ago.

[EIHoppe]

Yeah, even my DOOM 799 video using all of my homemade sounds/music and the default Hebo graphics was removed, so clearly they've targeted all Heboris videos.


I agree with colour_thief though: it looks like they're letting videos of the official games stay--the I Suck at Death Show still remains on Youtube. =P


~EI

[caffeine]

yes, i see that they've taken down all videos with the tag "heboris". i'm still saying you guys should've known better than to put heboris vids with copyrighted stuff up after the nicovideo fiasco. remember? they removed all heboris videos from nicovideo, too (copyright or no copyright).

[muf]

Well, so far they've also left UGM videos and Texmaster videos alone. I think this was just a strike on anything that had "Heboris" in the title.


i'm still saying you guys should've known better than to put heboris vids with copyrighted stuff up after the nicovideo fiasco. remember? they removed all heboris videos from nicovideo, too (copyright or no copyright).

They also took down all TGM/TAP/Ti videos off nicovideo.



EDIT:


The year is 2008 A.D. YouTube is entirely cleaned of Heboris videos. Well, not entirely... One small video of indomitable gameplay still holds out against the invadors. And life is not easy for Arika who garrison the fortified camps of Tetris The Grand Master, The Absolute Plus, and Terror-Instinct... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxZEwgGXsvA&fmt=18)

[Needle]

Okay, so let's begin posting completely unrelated copyright-clean videos with the Heboris tag and see what happens then http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif

[Zeta]

BEMANI attempted the VERY same stunt ages ago by having YouTube pull numerous BeatMania IIDX Tatsujin videos from their site, including those with simulators that were not using BEMANI songs. this is also, more or less, the same company that went out of their way to sue Roxor just so they didn't have to improve their DDR series AND sent a "cease and desist" order to a Japanese BeatMania Simulator developer when they started selling their BM simulator commercially. oddly enough, one OFFICIAL "DDR" exists that uses the same (more or less) engine as Roxor's "In the groove" that was NOT created by the same people that made the other DDR games (google "DDR Forever")


I say ignore it until we have solid evidence that Arika explicitly wants specific kinds of videos taken down, and then avoid submitting those kinds of videos. If Arika is serious about keeping their fanbase, they'll figure out we like being able to see these kinds of performances as it shows us what is POSSIBLE (key word there) on Tetris games.

[Zaphod77]

DDR FOREVER is not an official game. it's a stepmania box with every official DDR song on it, and then some.

[Zeta]

DDR FOREVER is not an official game. it's a stepmania box with every official DDR song on it, and then some.licenced by Konami.

[Kitaru]

Yeah, TGA had permission from Konami to run that Stepmania machine with everything on it.

[tepples]

Could it be time for codenames?


Ti -> Fanta Grape

LJ -> Eddie Davis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Davis_%28saxophonist%29)

[Zeta]

Could it be time for codenames?

Ti -> Fanta Grape
LJ -> Eddie Davis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Davis_%28saxophonist%29)Heboris -> tetra shape

Zeta -> uh... Zeta ^-^;;


seriously, though, Arika can only do so much.

[tepples]

If Arika asks YouTube to take down a video, YouTube has to keep it down for about two weeks. They go back up if the uploader files a counterclaim.

[Zaphod77]

Yeah, TGA had permission from Konami to run that Stepmania machine with everything on it.


Interesting. I'm guessing that was a special exception for the show only.

[Zeta]

Yeah, TGA had permission from Konami to run that Stepmania machine with everything on it.

Interesting. I'm guessing that was a special exception for the show only.probably. it dissappeared the moment deltaMAX got leaked by TGA staff themselves.


the theme, courses, and original stepcharts even had to meet Konami standards.

[johnberhenry]

Okay, so let's begin posting completely unrelated copyright-clean videos with the Heboris tag and see what happens then http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif


Perhaps a video of Rick Astley (http://yougotrickrolled.com/default.htm) with Heboris in the title? Let's see what happens if Arika gets Rick Roll'd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickroll)!!! http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[kotetsu213]

They took 3 of my Texmaster videos.


Some of them are still there but they took the ones with ???? as a tag.

[Zaphod77]

In other words... Tetris

[jujube]

Okay, so let's begin posting completely unrelated copyright-clean videos with the Heboris tag and see what happens then http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif

Perhaps a video of Rick Astley (http://yougotrickrolled.com/default.htm) with Heboris in the title? Let's see what happens if Arika gets Rick Roll'd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickroll)!!! http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif


or Yeltsin'd

http://youtube.com/watch?v=g0N1IE_AT-0

[LOst]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVKAoJbw9EE


Mihara has made a statement. Please vote 5 stars for this!

[tepples]

Are there any guides to LaTeX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaTeX) that we could exploit for "Become a TeXmaster"?

[cdsboy]

If Arika asks YouTube to take down a video, YouTube has to keep it down for about two weeks. They go back up if the uploader files a counterclaim.


How do we file counterclaims? And does muf's image pack contain any copyrighted content? The weird thing is they hit my heboris video but left my tgm1 and tap videos.

[DIGITAL]

They're only attacking clones so far I think.

[tepples]

[Disputed videos] go back up if the uploader files a counterclaim.
How do we file counterclaims?
From YouTube's DMCA policy (http://www.youtube.com/t/dmca_policy):
If you elect to send us a counter notice, please go to our Help Center (http://www.google.com/support/youtube/bin/answer.py?answer=59826&query=counter&topic=&type=&hl=en_US) to access the instructions.

Please note that under Section 512(f) of the Copyright Act, any person who knowingly materially misrepresents that material or activity was removed or disabled by mistake or misidentification may be subject to liability. Please also be advised that we enforce a policy that provides for the termination in appropriate circumstances of subscribers who are repeat infringers.
There are two slightly different procedures, depending on whether the complaining party reported the video from within or outside the United States. Either way, you disclose your personal information to the complaining party through YouTube.

And does muf's image pack contain any copyrighted content? The weird thing is they hit my heboris video but left my tgm1 and tap videos.

Assume for a moment that Tetris Holding does own copyright in one or more game elements required to play the tetromino game. In that case, Tetris licensees have every right to license the public performance of videos of genuine products while forbidding performance of videos of unlawful copies.

[muf]

And does muf's image pack contain any copyrighted content? The weird thing is they hit my heboris video but left my tgm1 and tap videos.

My image pack doesn't contain any images that Arika owns a copyright to.

[Ghett0]

They aren't touching Texmaster, which is screwed up. I never got any notices, but all my Hebo videos are gone. I think they're targeting TC specifically. OH CRUD ONE OF MY TEX VIDS ARE GONE!

[cdsboy]

I think they're targeting TC specifically.

Its stupid comments like these that cause big problems. Go search youtube for heboris. You'll get 3 videos, 2 are fake and 1 is real. Now who are they targeting again?

[Zaphod77]

they seem to be doing a tag search, and complaining about all videos with specific tags that appar tetris related en masse that are cloning their game.


it's only a matter of time before they hit on the one that brings up all the texmaster videos, and then i suspect they will all get pulled too.


TGM1 is mamed and zinced, and they don't seem to care about that. however i'm suprised they have left up TAP performances that are from mame. ones from real hardware are fine of course.


They arent' targetting us. they are targetting the clones of their games.

[cdsboy]

however i'm suprised they have left up TAP performances that are from mame. ones from real hardware are fine of course.


How do you tell the difference?

[Rosti LFC]

My thoughts, which have been said on #arika already (lol registered trademark channel name):


Heboris has been around for a while. There's no way that Arika can have only just realised it exists, or that it is a popular clone of the TGM series.

However, Heboris netplay has recently been released, and I believe this is the spark for the removals. The netplay is something important that Heboris has that TGM games do not. Until its release, Heboris was merely a clone. Something that was merely an inferior imitation to the TGM games. Never a proper substitute for the real thing. Yet with netplay that graphic is removed. Heboris is now, in a way, better than the TGM games are. It's now a proper threat to the series and to Arika, which is why I think they're cracking down on this.

I doubt that Texmaster videos will be touched, because they're simply clone videos again. They're not removing attention from TGM to a better game. I think the only Texmaster videos removed are ones that have Heboris in the tags or description. So far none of my TGM videos have been removed. Surely if they were trying to eradicate such things, they'd be the first to go? I mean, they are the only ones that are a direct infringement of copyright, being on an emulator.


As a final point, I note that Zemus's TGM3 GM video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=jwC544Z37qo) has not been removed. This is nothing but a video on Arika's site being uploaded on YouTube. It has a massive amount of hits, and is one of the first search results for 'Tetris'. In my opinion, the reason it remains is simply the fact it has "ARIKA" in the bottom right hand corner. It's attracting attention to Arika and TGM, rather than away to games like Heboris, which could draw away potential new fans of the series, and also remove current ones.

[kotetsu213]

I think the only Texmaster videos removed are ones that have Heboris in the tags or description.


Nope.


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b230/kotetsu213/texmaster_removed.png

[Poochy]

From what I've seen of Japanese companies, they generally seem to view videos with their own products as free advertisements, which might explain why videos of the official games haven't been touched. They tend to only complain if it's likely to directly affect sales. (In one case, I noticed full episodes of a TV anime series were generally left alone for over a year. Then the company released it on DVD and quickly took down virtually every video of it on YouTube.) In this case, Heboris is likely to attract attention away from TGM, thus giving Arika motivation to complain.


Though what I find odd is that Arika's only starting now, when Heboris was taken down last summer, and the message Hoshiken left in place of the official Heboris2001 download page seemed to imply that he took it down because Arika complained and he didn't want to make a big fuss.

[Zaphod77]

I dont' think Arika complained.


As i understand it, the author saw what was going on with U.E., and withdrew the game before arika complained. Other were turning it from something merely INSPIRED by TAP to a very blatant clone, and that bothered the guy.

[johnberhenry]

Mihara's Conspiracy (http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1023)


The Other Mihara's Conspiracy (http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/johnberhenry/mihara.jpg)

[Monte]

i don't know how many here are familiar with american politics but reverend wright has something to say on the matter:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrhrEx_NKJM

[johnberhenry]

EDIT:

The year is 2008 A.D. YouTube is entirely cleaned of Heboris videos. Well, not entirely... One small video of indomitable gameplay still holds out against the invadors. And life is not easy for Arika who garrison the fortified camps of Tetris The Grand Master, The Absolute Plus, and Terror-Instinct... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxZEwgGXsvA&fmt=18)


What if this last video gets deleted?

[DIGITAL]

http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl= ... a=N&tab=wv (http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=heboris&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv)


Oh my, do I see a fad coming along? http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif

[kiwibonga]

*waits for "All your heboris are belong to us" gif*

[shoryu]

they also removed my TAP death speed training starting at lv900 (obviously made with mame) http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif so i believe they're not only searching for the tags but they're actually looking at the videos.

[mushroom]

They removed my Heboris video. Wasn't a big deal at first, because I was using official sounds and music. Now, a couple days later, they remove all four of my Texmaster videos. So...uh...fucking hell.

[kotetsu213]

They just took 4 more of mine (Texmaster) today, now only one is left.


You know, at this point, I'm really tempted to reupload one of them, or even better, upload a video of my own game, and see how they react to that, eh?

[DIGITAL]

They've filed complaints on almost all Texmaster videos. I was fortunate to have made all of mine private yesterday. I just had a bad feeling when they had removed 6 of my Heboris runs. Sorry for everyone who lost their videos. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif

[Zaphod77]

They just took 4 more of mine (Texmaster) today, now only one is left.

You know, at this point, I'm really tempted to reupload one of them, or even better, upload a video of my own game, and see how they react to that, eh?


Did I not call it?


Videos from original hardware=okay. VIdeos from MAME/Clones=bad.


Videos from TGM only=okay, because TGM is allowed to be MAMEd.

[Rosti LFC]

I dont' think Arika complained.

As i understand it, the author saw what was going on with U.E., and withdrew the game before arika complained. Other were turning it from something merely INSPIRED by TAP to a very blatant clone, and that bothered the guy.


How, when it says that Arika were the people who complained?

Also, Heboris has been like this for ages. They requested we removed the videos which directly copied the sounds from TAP, but they seemed to have no problem with others. Also, they requested they be removed. They didn't go straight to YouTube to get them taken down.

And it wouldn't explain the removal of Texmaster videos.

[jujube]

apparently hebo (http://mysushitogo.com/?id=sushi) videos are still allowed on youtube. sick.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=T25oZxSJokA

[Ghett0]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0hwUUZeufog


This the only non-stolen video on my account.

[tepples]

I'm making a protest video.


http://pinocchio.jk0.org/lj/protest_logo.png

What I need are 5-second AVI clips of Tetris clones. Good ones, not miniclip/n-blox.

[jujube]

I'm making a protest video.

http://pinocchio.jk0.org/lj/protest_logo.png

What I need are 5-second AVI clips of Tetris clones. Good ones, not miniclip/n-blox.


here's a clip from my TAS of Kitaru's TGM clone. i tried to make my 5 seconds count http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif
http://www.sendspace.com/file/wt4uq9

[Zaphod77]

[

How, when it says that Arika were the people who complained?




I was referring not to the removal of hebo videos, but to the removal of hebo itself from the official site.

[LOst]

I have gotten two videos removed from youtube. One TGM1 video, and one Texmaster/UGM comparison video. But the Mihara video is still up. That means they can't touch the Heboris name alone. It must be something else they are targeting.

[statikeffeck]

this is annoying. my texmaster videos were removed too. maybe because texmaster uses Counterstrike sounds? that is silly though.

[herc]

I'm making a protest video.

http://pinocchio.jk0.org/lj/protest_logo.png

What I need are 5-second AVI clips of Tetris clones. Good ones, not miniclip/n-blox.


from the exotic side of the tetrisworld, maybe you can take this here:


http://www.coreloop.com/dump/cubestorm_8sec_clip.avi


feel free to cut it down to 5 seconds as you like if you like.

[tepples]

Thanks jujube and herc.


So far I have (thanks)

KGM (video by jujube) Cubestorm (video by herc) L2Stack (video by Quad) Texmaster (video by Lee N) Heboris (video by Zeta) I need several more games at their best or weirdest. You could try for the following:
Quadra Quinn Lockjaw (my PC is too slow for decent camstudio performance) Blocktrix DTET Tetris Semipro 68K Wrong Century

.mpg is fine too, but .wmv is not, at least until March 21, 2017.

[caffeine]

who's going to know you used wmv after formatting the final video?

[lee n]

who's going to know you used wmv after formatting the final video?

he probably can't load WMV in his video editor.

[kotetsu213]

I can send a video of my game.

[colour_thief]

It would be interesting to add clips from 2 clones Mihara respects: DTET and GTET.


EDIT: Err, thar's not meant as a put down to other clones if people read it that way. I personally don't care for DTET or GTET. I just know know that Mihara has mentioned them in a positive way in the past. Or at least, he hates imitations and doesn't hate variations.


FAKE EDIT: Better yet, include Shimizu's Tetris, the fan game that inspired the TGM series.

[johnberhenry]

.mpg is fine too, but .wmv is not, at least until March 21, 2017.

Y KNOT?

[colour_thief]

.mpg is fine too, but .wmv is not, at least until March 21, 2017.
Y KNOT?


Y U STOOPID

[Quad]

I'm making a protest video.

http://pinocchio.jk0.org/lj/protest_logo.png

What I need are 5-second AVI clips of Tetris clones. Good ones, not miniclip/n-blox.


Is this good enough?


http://upload.blue-pill.dk/l2stack_demo.avi

[johnberhenry]

Lockjaw video (http://www.mediafire.com/?yxalyvizyfj)


IMPORTANT: This video is around 40 seconds long, but you can speed it up to 4x and choose your five seconds from there.

[lee n]

Here's a video of me playing at SUDDEN 500 speed in Texmaster, I'm not the best player around but maybe the video will do anyway.


http://www.zshare.net/download/111316803fe24a7d/ (http://www.zshare.net/download/111316803fe24a7d/default.htm)


Feel free to cut out whatever 5 seconds you feel appropriate if you feel like using it.

[caffeine]

who's going to know you used wmv after formatting the final video?
he probably can't load WMV in his video editor.

if that's the case, why would he need to wait until 2017? i'm sure there's video converters available today.

[lee n]

if that's the case, why would he need to wait until 2017?
I dunno, it could have something to do with the fact that it's a proprietary (and protected) format.

i'm sure there's video converters available today.

Yes, but re-compressing already compressed videos degrades the quality quite a bit.. so that adds an extra step of compression before he's encoding his final video.


You're better off using a video format that he can load natively in his editor, and that's probably why he was asking for just that.

[Zeta]

hold on, I've got one Rhythm Mode (Heboris UE MINI) run that I'll get 5 seconds of shortly. just need to transfer the replay data to my hard drive.

[tepples]

if that's the case, why would he need to wait until 2017?
I dunno, it could have something to do with the fact that it's a proprietary (and protected) format.
Patents on the ASF container, used by WMV, expire then. And Microsoft has declared that it is not willing to license these patents for use in free software.

You're better off using a video format that he can load natively in his editor
The only editor I have that can load WMV is Windows Movie Maker, and it can't export to anything but WMV.

A sneak preview of part of the video:
http://pinocchio.jk0.org/lj/copyright.gov.gif
Yes, it goes by too fast to read, but 1. it's synchronized to music at a specific tempo, and 2. it's intended to illustrate the existence of such laws, not explain them fully, and anyone who cares has a pause button.

hold on, I've got one Rhythm Mode (Heboris UE MINI) run that I'll get 5 seconds of shortly.

Heboris has Rhythm from LJ? Cross pollination FTW.

[Zaphod77]

it also has cascade, sticky, and square.

[Ghett0]

it also has cascade, sticky, and square.


The origin of these modes are the following:


Cascade - One of the '03 games

Sticky - LJ

Square - TNT

[Zaphod77]

And actually, i think that particular copyright wisdom is being misapplied.


It's clearly intended to apply to board games, and i think case law will back me up on this.


A video game is an interactive audio-visual work for entertainment purposes.


What that law boils down to is the only thing you can copyright is the specific audio-visual portions of the game, and not the whole game. Anyone else can make a game that plays the same way, as long as they don't copy the pictures and unique pieces. that's why we can have aggravation, trouble, parcheesi, sorry, etc. They all have the same basic game, but they look different.


The question is whether a video game is legally defined as a game (which cannot be copyrighted), or as an interactive audiovisual work for entertainment (which most certainly CAN be copyrighted).


The other possible issue is this. The Grade Recognition System probably qualifies as a software patent. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif

[muf]

The other possible issue is this. The Grade Recognition System probably qualifies as a software patent. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif

Where does it say G.R.S. is a patent ? TGM states that I.R.S. is "patent pending" (which we know fell through in the application process and is now invalid), and that G.R.S. is "Design by Arika, co.". Nowhere does it say G.R.S. is patented or even patent pending.

[tepples]

Sticky - LJ
If it's "sticky", it's Blastris A and Bombliss. If it's "sticky by color" with multicolored tetrominoes, it's The Next Tetris (PS1) and Tetris Worlds.

What that law boils down to is the only thing you can copyright is the specific audio-visual portions of the game
That's why people took down their videos of Heboris with TGM skinning.

Anyone else can make a game that plays the same way, as long as they don't copy the pictures and unique pieces. that's why we can have aggravation, trouble, parcheesi, sorry, etc.
Quinn, DTET, N-Blox, Lockjaw, etc.

The question is whether a video game is legally defined as a game (which cannot be copyrighted), or as an interactive audiovisual work for entertainment (which most certainly CAN be copyrighted).
A video game contains elements of both: the tetromino game rules (no ©, as they're a process), plus the menu text (no © per Lotus v. Borland), plus block textures, backgrounds, and sounds (©, which is why I never incorporated most of Rich Nagel's work into lj-contrib). Just because a work is in a new medium doesn't make uncopyrightable elements copyrightable.

The other possible issue is this. The Grade Recognition System probably qualifies as a software patent. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif

Somebody get the number (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NonSequiturThud) of that patent? Mufunyo and I would like to look at the claims to pick them apart.


In the 1980s and early 1990s, when you powered on an arcade machine, it had an ordered set of ten preset scores. Beat one of those, and you have a grade based on a score threshold. And I remember Balloon Trip (part of Nintendo's Balloon Fight) displaying a similar "rank" in real time based on the current score. I'm 90 percent sure that this prior art makes GRS1 too obvious for a valid patent.


A patent on GRS2 (fill with score, drain with time) might more likely succeed. That's one reason I haven't put GRS2 (used by TAP and in part by Ti) into LJ. There are probably better ways to grade the combination of lines cleared with a single piece and stacking speed.


A patent on IRS probably fell through for good reason. It's possible to implement IRS by simply not updating the last-pressed state of the rotation keys during ARE, and that's likely to happen at some point in the development of a clone even on accident. Besides, as Americans were reminded on April 15, the U.S. Treasury owns IRS (http://www.irs.gov/default.htm).

[Zaphod77]

IRS fell through because the invention is obvious. At least that's why it should have fallen through.


And i believe that grs mk 1 also would fall through for the same reason, and also from prior art.


However, G.R.S. mk2 amd mk3 (gain grade points which decay by time, and update grade when you gather enough of them and reset) are probably unique enough to deserve a software patent, as i dont' think there is prior art.


Hebo's sticky is definitely a tetris worlds sticky mode clone.

Ok, just checked, and i'm not seeing any mention of GRS in the materials for TAP and TI. if they didn't bother they've got no leg to stand on.

[Deniax]

And what about the timings & level advance used in the TGM series, can these be patented?

[muf]

And what about the timings & level advance used in the TGM series, can these be patented?

I believe a lot of those are derived from how Sega Tetris works. More prior art there.

[Ghett0]

And what about the timings & level advance used in the TGM series, can these be patented?
I believe a lot of those are derived from how Sega Tetris works. More prior art there.


The MASTER curve is from the unlicensed Sega Tetris. That speed curve belongs to no one. Grading system is not protected by copyright, as it's a system involved in digital media.


So basically, we can file a counter-claim against Arika.

[colour_thief]

The MASTER curve is from the unlicensed Sega Tetris.


Sega Tetris is NOT unlicensed.

[Ghett0]

The MASTER curve is from the unlicensed Sega Tetris.

Sega Tetris is NOT unlicensed.


I know there's an unlicensed version.

[kiwibonga]

Back then, they were all "licensed" http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif

[colour_thief]

The MASTER curve is from the unlicensed Sega Tetris.

Sega Tetris is NOT unlicensed.

I know there's an unlicensed version.


A Megadrive version went unreleased because they couldn't secure the license. All released Tetris games by Sega are licensed.

[Needle]

If you're talking about Shimizu Tetris (http://tetrisconcept.com/wiki/index.php?title=Shimizu_Tetris), it is the first game to feature 20G but I don't think it shared the same exact speed curve as TGM.

[Zaphod77]

Sega tetris (arcade) IS licensed, and introduced the following.


1) lock delay.

2) ARE

3) 1G autorepeat.

4) Sega Rotation system, which never lifts a piece up other then I.

5) Slow/fast/slow/fast speed curve.


Shimizu's Tetris (unofficial) took stuff from sega tetris, and added 20G, and a bunch of configurable options.


Arika did develop the following.


1) Initial Rotation System.

2) the Arika level counter, where pieces placed and lines count towards level.

3) The arika grading system.

4) Added kicks to Sega Rotation.


Pretty much everythign else was taken from Shimizu's Tetris, or one of sega's games.


The only unliscensed sega tetris was the megadrive version, which is horrible anyway.

[Zeta]

Arika did develop the following.

1) Initial Rotation System.
2) the Arika level counter, where pieces placed and lines count towards level.
3) The arika grading system.
4) Added kicks to Sega Rotation.

1, I believe, has already been discussed, but once again, it's a quirk that could be introduced at any time in any tetris variant, and the exact means of reproducing it could vary. for starters, another possibility is to have the player press the rotation buttons before the next piece comes in and the piece preview would rotate to show the rotation. Is that not also Initial Rotation?

2 is one I'd give Arika, since it's not so much the combination of pieces placed and lines counting towards levels as it is the requirement that you clear a line to advance past level XX99. that part I will give them. the rest of it, not so much. the rest of it, not so much, since it basically adds pieces placed to line clears and subtracts one for each piece placed if you're at level XX99 when you place the piece.

3, that's a gray area.

4, not exactly patentable, so copyright law can't cover it. especially if the clone in question breaks mihara's conspiracy.




anyways, 24 seconds of Heboris for you guys to trim down:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=A2BNW8C2



[edit: update: only 1 Heboris and 1 Texmaster video are still viewable on youtube]

[Zaphod77]

i wasn't stating whether or not they had a case for anything, but simply the things that they actualyl came up with themselves. (which wasn't that much, honestly)

[Zeta]

i wasn't stating whether or not they had a case for anything, but simply the things that they actualyl came up with themselves. (which wasn't that much, honestly)Point taken.


also, I asked Ema if he (she?) had any ideas as to why Arika had the videos pulled from Youtube. no clue there.

[Zaphod77]

I honestly think that arika believes that a specific implementation of a game is copyrightable, and that if someone clones their gameplay, that it is a violation.


I'm not familiar with japanese copyright law, and that may actually be the case in their country.


However, in the US, only patents can do what they want.

[Zeta]

yeah, that may be the case. BEMANI had to file patents for DDR before they were able to bar RoxoR from making any more rhythm games, and the only reason they were able to do (I believe) was because of release dates for US versions of DDR - they have an arcade US DDR game dating back to pre-MAX times.

[Needle]

All reasoning aside I guess this is - somehow - a presumed guilty unless proven innocent situation, with the burden of proof on us, not them. Wherever did the principals of the modern judicial system go?

[tepples]

All reasoning aside I guess this is - somehow - a presumed guilty unless proven innocent situation, with the burden of proof on us, not them. Wherever did the principals of the modern judicial system go?

To the trial lawyers' union (http://www.atlanet.org/default.htm). If legal representation weren't so expensive, there wouldn't be as much imbalance in the legal system. That's why legal self-help firms such as Nolo (http://www.nolo.com/default.htm) and We The People (http://www.wethepeopleusa.com/default.htm) try to let you do as much as possible without a lawyer.

[Zaphod77]

That's nothing to do with the lawyers, simply the DMCA and/or the WIPO treaty in action. Copyright holders can be penalized for spurious takedown notices, but the burden is on you to prove you are innocent.

[tepples]

What I have so far: draft 1 (1.6 MiB) (http://pinocchio.jk0.org/lj/protest_drafts/001_q4.avi)

[jujube]

flag

[herc]

What I have so far: draft 1 (1.6 MiB) (http://pinocchio.jk0.org/lj/protest_drafts/001_q4.avi)

great work!

[muf]

It's the attack of the legless people!


Also, that pic at 00:15 needs more fgsfds (http://images.google.com/images?q=fgsfds&gbv=2&ndsp=20&hl=en&safe=off&start=0&sa=N).

[herc]

to show the broad variety of tetris incarnations, it might be not too bad to show a short video of BlockoutII :


http://www.coreloop.com/dump/5sec_blockout_xvid.avi


this mode uses only tetrominoes and below (FLAT block set) and is a replay from one of the fastest blockout players.

i will make a quadra video soon.

[tepples]

Thanks herc. There are still five slots left for videos.

[statikeffeck]

What I have so far: draft 1 (1.6 MiB) (http://pinocchio.jk0.org/lj/protest_drafts/001_q4.avi)


awesome! can't wait until its ready for posting/spamming.

[Pineapple]

i will make a quadra video soon.

I don't know how o record video, but there are some Quadra replays tht can be downloaded in-game of the 5 highest scores. Perhaps you could pick one and grab the first minute or so from it?

[herc]

i will make a quadra video soon.
I don't know how o record video, but there are some Quadra replays tht can be downloaded in-game of the 5 highest scores. Perhaps you could pick one and grab the first minute or so from it?


you should try http://www.fraps.com (http://www.fraps.com/default.htm) and hope that your PC is fast enough. the trial version will do fine.

fraps is totally easy to use. i am not at home currently, so the quadra video will take some time - so if you manage to get fraps to run, it would be great if you could make the video for quadra (and some other games)

[tepples]

you should try http://www.fraps.com (http://www.fraps.com/default.htm)
Screen recorders for Windows that are free and Free include CamStudio and VirtualDub.

and hope that your PC is fast enough.

That's the killer.

[caffeine]

I doubt you'll get one of Quadra. I haven't found compatible software for recording it cleanly. Trying results in color inversion.

[tepples]

I doubt you'll get one of Quadra. I haven't found compatible software for recording it cleanly. Trying results in color inversion.

The software that I'm using to put the video together (VirtualDub and AviSynth) can probably reinvert the colors, using Levels (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Levels) with MergeRGB (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/MergeRGB).

[johnberhenry]

Would you liek some Mudkipz (http://www.ninjasareawesome.com/images/neoshop/mudkip.gif) on your protest video?

[Ghett0]

Would you liek some Mudkipz (http://www.ninjasareawesome.com/images/neoshop/mudkip.gif) on your protest video?


What the hell?

[colour_thief]

Would you liek some Mudkipz (http://www.ninjasareawesome.com/images/neoshop/mudkip.gif) on your protest video?

What the hell?


That is quite possibly your most intelligent post ever.

[caffeine]

ahahaha

[cdsboy]

That is quite possibly your most intelligent post ever.


+1

[johnberhenry]

That is quite possibly your most intelligent post ever.

+1


++ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Increment) http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[tepples]

Lap 2 (3 MB AVI (http://pinocchio.jk0.org/lj/protest_drafts/002_q4.avi)) featuring Lockjaw PC, TOD, Blockout, and Wrong Century.


We still need at least Bedter, Quadra, and Quinn as examples of games that TTC has specifically targeted. If you have to, run one PC with TV-out into a second with TV-in.

[Ghett0]

I have a .avi of me making a tetris in the invisible staffroll. (Texmaster)

http://download228.mediafire.com/ldnx0y ... tetris.avi (http://download228.mediafire.com/ldnx0yvzdndg/bwuclpmcrdh/invisibletetris.avi)

[herc]

http://www.coreloop.com/dump/quadra.avi


if you still have a slot left at the end, why not reconsider including cubestorm, too..

[tepples]

http://www.coreloop.com/dump/quadra.avi
Thanks.

if you still have a slot left at the end, why not reconsider including cubestorm, too..
CS is in lap 1 (http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=21239#21239).

Ghett0: I get an error
Invalid Quickkey. This error has been forwarded to MediaFire's development team.

The quickkey you provided for file download was invalid. This is usually caused because the file is no longer stored on Mediafire. This occurs when the file is removed by the originating user or Mediafire.

But then I already have Lee N's Texmaster sudden video for lap 3.

[Ghett0]

I re-uploaded it.


http://www.mediafire.com/?bwuclpmcrdh

[tepples]

Got it.


I managed to record Bedter just because it was notably targeted. I came to the conclusion that Bedter is definitely not a modern tetromino game:

The auto-shift isn't delayed at all. You have to set the rate real low (or "sluggish"), or you get misdrop city. Preview is shown in a different orientation from entry. Blocks become one single color upon lock, despite no technical limitation. Clockwise rotation only. No wall kicks. No lock delay.
This leaves Quinn, another notably targeted game. Does anyone know how to record the screen on a Mac?

[Zaphod77]

actually, that look like Gravytris to me, not cubestorm.


oh wait. cubestorm is the new name for gravytris. duh...

[Ghett0]

I have a all your heboris wav for you to use.

http://www.mediafire.com/?vm2swz6y4nj

[herc]

actually, that look like Gravytris to me, not cubestorm.

oh wait. cubestorm is the new name for gravytris. duh...


you are totally right: its the old gravytris video. i just have not made a new cubestorm video yet, because 1. cubestorm is still in its alpha stage and 2. not that much has changed graphically. though internally the most important change in cubestorm is its "1/100 unit precisition" placement algorithm meaning: you can place pieces not only at their integer positions, but everywhere with 1/100 unit steps. this allows to do some nice things like in Tetris DS touch mode.

the problem is: there is still a major bug to fix. (overlapping, interlocking pieces - that thing drives me crazy. )

[tepples]

I just did a bit of research, and it appears that all the screen recording programs for Mac OS X (http://www.freemacblog.com/mac-options-for-capturing-a-video-of-your-screen/default.htm) cost money. The trial versions either watermark the image or limit recording to a few seconds. Someone might have to go to the Quinn forums (http://simonhaertel.de/forum/default.htm), explain the situation, and ask for a video.


Despite Mac OS X's roots in *BSD, it appears that Windows is more free in this respect. On Windows, one can record the screen with software that is both free and Free. Two packages like this are CamStudio and VirtualDub. You could try them in Wine, but given the low-level nature of screen recording, I doubt it will work.

[Mr. Antisocial]

Here's a quick Quinn video I made. Sorry its 60 sec long. I was in a bit of a rush and didn't have time to edit it. Hope its usable.


http://www.zshare.net/download/11891063fc319945/ (http://www.zshare.net/download/11891063fc319945/default.htm)

[tepples]

Thank you all for your cooperation. Here's the first complete draft (http://pinocchio.jk0.org/lj/protest_drafts/full_1.avi) (4.53 MiB AVI, Xvid/LAME).

[jujube]

dude! this is great http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[Lewis]

Is it meant to have video? I just get sound, but there might be a problem with my Media Player. The first 2 videos work OK, it's just the newest one I'm having a problem with.

[tepples]

Apparently, your MPEG-4 ASP decoders aren't set up to decode all fourCCs (four-character codec identifiers) that might contain MPEG-4 ASP video. You could try playing it in VLC (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/default.htm), or you could try changing the fourCC (http://www.divx-digest.com/software/avifourcc.html). Or if "my Media Player" is Windows Media Player, you could try installing the Xvid codec (http://www.digital-digest.com/software/download.php?sid=1052&ssid=0&did=1).

[Zaphod77]

you need XviD codec.

[Lewis]

Thanks for the help. The video works fine now. I was just confused since the first two videos worked fine on my computer.

Will anything else be added to the video?

[tepples]

Thanks for the help. The video works fine now. I was just confused since the first two videos worked fine on my computer.
On any given day, it's a roll of the dice whether I choose DivX or Xvid. They're both MPEG-4 video (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-4_Part_2) codecs, and any PC-based decoder that can decode one should be able to decode the other. If they do not, then your operating system's video framework just isn't associating the fourCCs to the video codec.

The hardware decoders in "DivX Certified" DVD players are a different story. The DivX encoder doesn't use some of the more sophisticated motion compensation features of MPEG-4 video that Xvid uses. So to save costs, some "DivX Certified" MPEG-4 video decoders leave them out.

Will anything else be added to the video?

There might be a disclaimer (along the lines of "Not sponsored or endorsed by Tetris Holding") at the end of the credits, and some of the flag pictures might be moved around. As for anything else, I'm willing to take requests.

[muf]

Tepples, if you can send me a constant quant 1 version (or something of a similarly high quality) of your protest video, I will put it up on replaycentral.tv. I have to re-encode it to FLV, and your video is already pretty low quality, so that will just make it worse if I encode this one as is.

[Lewis]

What's with all the flags on the video?

[Ai]

Nice job tepples! I like it! Never heard of some of the games mentioned.

[tepples]

Tepples, if you can send me a constant quant 1 version (or something of a similarly high quality) of your protest video
Right now it's at Xvid q/6. I'll post a q/1 version once the editing is final.

What's with all the flags on the video?

What is the first "flag" at 0:04? Tell me what that does, then I'll tell you what THIS VIDEO WILL BE FLAGGED (http://www.youtube.com/results?q=this+video+will+be+flagged) is supposed to mean.

[herc]

@tepples: fantastic video!

[tepples]

It's out.


Tepples, if you can send me a constant quant 1 version (or something of a similarly high quality) of your protest video, I will put it up on replaycentral.tv.

You've got PM.


The rest can catch it on AOL (http://uncutvideo.aol.com/users/pinocchiopoppins/c558c5183d74c006f3c00a3902bfe6b1?index=0) or YouTube (http://youtube.com/watch?v=HDJQP1xg5EY) while it lasts.


EDIT: As of 13:37 US Eastern Daylight Time, it's up on replaycentral.tv, albeit with severe audio/video sync issues.

[lee n]

Someone has uploaded the protest video to nicovideo.


http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm3401155

[Zaphod77]

you know what? someone needs to add japanese subtitles to this video. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

[lee n]

you know what? someone needs to add japanese subtitles to this video. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

They kinda do over at nicovideo already.


nicovideo supports user comments overlayed over the video, and they're commenting what happens.

[Zaphod77]

oh.


I hope Arika sees it. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

[tepples]

Crowd-sourced Japanese subtitles have one weakness: The video's legal arguments are based on the copyright law of the United States (http://www.copyright.gov/title17/default.htm) as annotated by the U.S. Copyright Office (http://www.copyright.gov/circs/default.htm), not the copyright law of Japan (http://www.cric.or.jp/cric_e/clj/index.html). But then the video is about actions taken against users of YouTube, and YouTube is on U.S. soil anyway.

[Ghett0]

Actually, look at Subsection 5 Article 38 in Japanese copyright.

[Zaphod77]

Actually, Arika may in fact have a case under Japan law. Whether this applies outside of japan is another matter


DESIGN RIGHTS

The Meaning of Design Rights

A design is the form, shape, color or a combination of these of a good, in toto or in part, that causes a sense of beauty. In this case, a good is an object that can be transported. As such, real property can not qualify as well as intangibles. A design right can be obtained by attaching a drawing of the design to the application made to the Patent Agency. Then if the design meets the standards of industrial utility, newness and creativity it can be registered. The meaning of industrial utility means that it can be mass produced by industrial production methods, thus making handicrafts made by hand ineligible, although that could be eligible for copyright protection. The holder of a design right can seek an injunction against those who "use" the design without authorization, as well as seeking compensatory damages. On top of this there are economic benefits such as the ability to license it to others, sell it, or use it as collateral. Here, "use" the design means to manufacture, use, transfer, lend, or import products using the design. The right is valid even against those who are unaware of its existence. The term of protection of the design right is 15 years from the date of registration.

Infringement of Design Rights.

An infringement of a design right is the use of a design previously registered by another party, or of a similar design. The rights holder can seek an injunction stopping sales as well as demand compensatory damages. On top of that, in particularly egregious cases, criminal sanctions of up to 3 years in prison or 3 million yen in damages can also be imposed. The standard for determining whether a design right has been infringed is based on feelings of beauty and confusion, which, being highly subjective, even causes disputes among experts, similar to the situation for trademarks. Here, the beauty standard revolves in many ways around originality, while the confusion standard revolves around whether there is confusion among consumers. For the courts it appears that the element of confusion among consumers has great import.



video games can be protected with design rights. If you look theough japanese copyright cases with regards to cloned video games, you will see references to designs. If the cloned game is a thing of beauty, and could be confused with the original, it may infringe on the registered design rights. Making ithis decision is not the easiest thing in the world, and often it takes a while to get through the courts, but the intent is clear. If you make a video game that is sufficiently marketable, original, and creative, you can register the design and prevent people from cloning it for 15 years. Even if the graphics, sound, and code are not copied, if you duplicate the gameplay exactly, the protected design is used, and that is a violation.


However, one that is merely inspired by, but not the same (witness the many different variations of tetris out there) does NOT infringe on the design right. Mihara's respect for unnoficial tetris games that don't clone his game, such as DTET and GTET, is well inline with this interpretation.

[tepples]

video games can be protected with design rights. If you look theough japanese copyright cases with regards to cloned video games, you will see references to designs. If the cloned game is a thing of beauty, and could be confused with the original, it may infringe on the registered design rights.
The United States also has registered designs, which it calls "design patents". Unlike a copyright, a registered design isn't automatic upon creation; the inventor must apply for it in each country. In this case, the patent scene from the video (starts at 1:31, after the second set of flags) shows that the USPTO never never granted TTC any U.S. patents or U.S. registered designs. (The video doesn't test Arika as an assignee, only "Tetris" and "Elorg", but USPTO.gov returns 0 results for Arika as well.) The question now becomes whether TTC or Arika applied for a registered design in Japan.

Mihara's respect for unnoficial tetris games that don't clone his game, such as DTET and GTET, is well inline with this interpretation.

Which is part of why I'm not defining the scope of Lockjaw to go as far as some cloners in replicating TGM, especially the fill/drain grade point system of TAP and Ti.

[Zaphod77]

in fact i'm not sure registered designs have been given to video games in the usa at all, but they DO get awarded in Japan.


However, since i can't search the japan reginsted design database, i can't check this for myself.

[tepples]

in fact i'm not sure registered designs have been given to video games in the usa at all

The rules of Dr. Mario are patented in the United States, but Nintendo has never enforced this U.S. Patent 5,265,888. Konami, on the other hand, has enforced its patents on Dance Dance Revolution.


Apple owns a patent on the user interface of iTunes (http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04_2F05_2F12_2F1616252), and Linspire had to move the playback controls of Lsongs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lsongs) to the bottom.

[Zaphod77]

the main issue here is that gameplay mechanics must be non obvious to be patented in the US.


There is no such requirement for a registered design in the japanese copyright law that I can see. instead, they must be "things of beauty" and they must be creative, novel, and have industrial utility. And it seems GM qualifies to me.

[Zeta]

in fact i'm not sure registered designs have been given to video games in the usa at all
The rules of Dr. Mario are patented in the United States, but Nintendo has never enforced this U.S. Patent 5,265,888. Konami, on the other hand, has enforced its patents on Dance Dance Revolution.I will also add that Konami had to apply for patents for DDR before the US legal system would take any action against Roxor - prior to that, there were no US patents that Roxor was infringing upon.


and the patent (memory serving correctly) covers all rhythm-based games that involve panels on a floor.

[lee n]

Someone has uploaded the protest video to nicovideo.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm3401155


.. and now the video has been pulled.

[kotetsu213]

Those uncaring cretins are at it again...


http://youtube.com/watch?v=gUnf8zuu_DA

[muf]

kotetsu, april fools was 2 months ago.

[Rosti LFC]

Bumped for a second wave, this time blitzing Texmaster videos.

Six of mine were pulled this morning. My four newest, and two others. Strangely not all of them, and I don't quite know why they've missed a few.

[timc]

7 Texmaster videos down for me as well, should i counter claim? hm hm hm

[colour_thief]

Kotetsu's account was suspended over this, this time around. No matter who's right or wrong, it's just not worth it guys.

[PetitPrince]

I also got Amnesia's Ti record wiped out. My others Texmaster video are intact though.

[cdsboy]

i got my one texmaster movie removed.

[tepples]

In 1999, I quit watching Noddy on PBS when Enid Blyton Ltd complained about a fan page I had put up. If "THIS FAN GAME VIDEO WILL BE FLAGGED" disappears, I just might quit Tetris.

[Rosti LFC]

Well despite the fact that I've uploaded absolutely nothing since the last round of video deletions, I've had another video removed, and as a result my account is now "permanently disabled", meaning the 20+ videos that I had which were perfectly kosher have now been removed as well.

[K]

This is to notify you that we have removed or disabled access to the following material as a result of a third-party notification by ??????? claiming that this material is infringing:

m-roll training: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvpDzbAliek
what else ?

[tepples]

If "THIS FAN GAME VIDEO WILL BE FLAGGED" disappears, I just might quit Tetris.
It disappeared. Discussion continues in this topic (http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1479).