Blockbox

[Deniax]

Hi,

I'm happy to announce I'm currently building a game called "Blockbox". The purpose of the game is that it's easy to start, config and have enough options for new and professional players.
This all is achieved using a simple user interface and can be played on http://www.blockboxgame.com (http://www.blockboxgame.com/default.htm)

A screenshot can be seen here:
http://greed.gamepoint.net/Picture1.png

Single player
Classic play - A mixture of classic gameboy play with no DAS
Marathon
Expert
40 lines - Make 40 lines as fast as you can

Multiplayer (play against 1 or 4 opponents)
Rated
Custom - See below for options

Team Game (You play with your teammate on 1 big field of 20 cells width)


Normal game-options:

- Big piece preview on/off
- Choose rotation scheme: ARS/SRS/BRS
- Next piece animation on/off
- Ability to simply select your controls , including a third rotation button

Custom settings:

- Play Marathon
- Play Expert mode
- Starting level
- Speed level,
- Fixed speed (for example 0G or 20G)
- Choose garbage: BGS, Tennis, Random, TGM, Off
- Players who will play a VS game can use only ARS, only SRS or are free to chose either ARS or SRS

Community features:

Leaderboard:
- Directly updated
- Everyones highscore contains a replay that can be watched
- Different highscore entries for different game-options
- Team highscores support
- Also supports stuff like who's the fastest player in Ti sections like 100-200, 200-300 , etc
- Ability to see what rotation scheme was used to get a specific highscore
- Filter stuff like: shown only the sores of your friends

Team support:

- Create a team with another player and choose your teamname
- Teams will be stored, including highsores, replays, statistics
- Ability to be in multiple teams

[Edo]

Hi deniax, welcome to the forums!


Regarding single player, I think most people here are reasonably content with what we already have: Texmaster, LockJaw and Heboris do a fantastic job.


Regarding multiplayer, there's a distinct lack of good online multiplayer tetris games out there at the moment. If you concentrated your efforts on the multiplayer side of things, and made something that: a) works on most people's computers, and b) is actually half decent, you'll have the market cornered.


Currently, for online play, there's Cultris, Quadra, and Blocktrix (based on TetriNET). Cultris has an over-emphasis on combos, and also a lot of people here have had difficulties getting it to run. Quadra has unconventional (cascade) gravity. Blocktrix does actually work for most people, and it's actually possible to play a fairly standard game of tetris; however, there are significant nagging flaws.


Basically, if you can look at Blocktrix, and fix all the flaws, you'll have a very decent game. These flaws include:


If you can rise to the challenge of making a decent multiplayer tetris, I'm sure everyone here will get very excited.

[Rosti LFC]

I think the garbage system for Blocktrix is perfectly fine.

I also don't think the items are that bad if you want them turned on, aside from the one that lets you clear your entire screen. That one is stupid.


The most important things are customisable DAS, ability to use ARS or SRS (preferably the option of both if t-spins are turned off)

[tepples]

Regarding multiplayer, there's a distinct lack of good online multiplayer tetris games out there at the moment. If you concentrated your efforts on the multiplayer side of things, and made something that: a) works on most people's computers, and b) is actually half decent, you'll have the market cornered.

By "most people's computers", do you mean that the developer has to buy a Mac in order to port the program to Mac OS X?

[Deniax]

Hi all, thanks for the input

The most difficult issue when making a multiplayer game are timing issues.
If you have a very fast computer and you play against a slow computer, you will have differences in frames per second which could give you an advantage or disadvantage.

I have not played Blocktrix yet, but I did play Tetrinet.

My goal is to make the multiplayer part feel more like TGM in stead of the other "normal" multiplayer clones. Also it won't use any extra attack/defence items.

The multiplayer part will use the levelprogression, timings, delays & score from TGM2+ Master.
It would also be possible to make a custom multiplayer games where you choose al the options.

Edo, what do you mean with an Unfair garbage system? How I have currently implemented it is that send garbage leaves one hole open.

[tepples]

Edo, what do you mean with an Unfair garbage system? How I have currently implemented it is that send garbage leaves one hole open.

How often does this hole change position between rows? In some games, it changes so seldom that the game is reduced to sending 4-line clears back and forth, giving new meaning to "tetromino tennis" (http://vadim.oversigma.com/Tetris.htm).

[K]

hi Deniax,


You create this game for a company ("WebPool" or something) ?

i watched the screenshot interface and multiuser communication features, do you use a kind of standardized API shared by several game on mutualised server or website ? (like a registration system where users can play different game with the same account ? or it is only for your game ?

i'm very curious about this point.


How work the Team Game ? does your teammate is in 2P local or network as well ? does the game mimic the TGM double mode or the 2 teammate playfield are strictly independant ? i mean i'm curious about the network asynchronism here


But maybe i'm totally wrong cause watching closely to your "screenshots", may i deduce there is no working prototype ? still on the interface design (photoshop or something) ?

[Edo]

Edo, what do you mean with an Unfair garbage system? How I have currently implemented it is that send garbage leaves one hole open.
How often does this hole change position between rows? In some games, it changes so seldom that the game is reduced to sending 4-line clears back and forth, giving new meaning to "tetromino tennis" (http://vadim.oversigma.com/Tetris.htm).

Blocktrix uses the 4 garbage lines for tetris, 2 for triple, 1 for double convention, with no back-to-back bonuses. There is a single hole per garbage line, randomly generated on a per line basis. Garbage is sent to all players, and there's no ability to target a single player.


It's not particularly "unfair" per se, but it might be worth considering the option of each player receiving identical garbage. Also, rather annoyingly, garbage is received immediately, rather than waiting for the player to place their active tetromino.


Having Tetris DS style garbage, where the holes very frequently line up, is quite ridiculous; as tepples said, it often results in sending 4 lines back and forth. But on the other hand, I personally think pure random hole alignment is a bit too far to the other extreme. Perhaps having a 30% chance of consecutive holes lining up (as opposed to 10% in pure random), would be a nice compromise.

[Zaphod77]

I think each block of garbage should line up, but after every garbage send, the "hole position" should rotate 3 blocks. so consecutive tetrises woud NOT be lined up.

[Rosti LFC]

I have not played Blocktrix yet, but I did play Tetrinet.



Add in a hold feature, extra preview, TLS (ghost piece) and you've basically got it anyway.

[jujube]

deniax - you may like this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z7N3lfJyu4

[Deniax]

tepplessHow often does this hole change position between rows? The hole change position changes with every new row you get. It's like zaphod77 says, if first hole is in 1-st position then 2-nd - 4th, 3rd - 7

jago
You create this game for a company ("WebPool" or something) ?
i watched the screenshot interface and multiuser communication features, do you use a kind of standardized API shared by several game on mutualised server or website ? (like a registration system where users can play different game with the same account ? or it is only for your game ? i'm very curious about this point.
No, WebPool is a Pool/Snooker game we have made. We just used the template for Blockbox.

We have created our own API which indeed is shared between many different games we created which you can reach with one registered username.
You can see which games your friends are playing and in which room they currently are. Every room has it's own chat, there is a global chat where all rooms are connected to, private chat, etc etc , too many things to name without being offtopic http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif
It's currently a Dutch only website (for now), but you can check it out at: www.spelpunt.nl (http://www.spelpunt.nl/default.htm) (all games are java based)

How work the Team Game ? does your teammate is in 2P local or network as well ? does the game mimic the TGM double mode or the 2 teammate playfield are strictly independant ? i mean i'm curious about the network asynchronism here All players are network connected. So you can not play with 2 players on 1 computer.


Originally the plan was that player 1 and player 2 could put their Tetriminos everywhere on the field. The problem with that was lag. For example player 1 put a Tetrimino on a specific place. this was send to the server and the server then sends this to player 2. But, if player 2 at the exact time put a tetrimino in the same place, this could cause problems. Now, you can counter these problems, but it would be very difficult.


Because of that, player 1 only has first 10 cells and player 2 has the last 10 cells. When you try to move your tetrimino further than you can, an invisible force field will not let you do it (with a nice graphical effect).


This way we simply solved the problems of network play http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

Another difference with TGM2+ Double mode is that you don't have separate level/score , you just have a combined level, score and time. I also want to make it so that you can give your team a name (which will be recognized each time your teammate joins your game), complete with own stats, highscores, etc


Anyway, I hope to release a beta version of the game within 2 weeks for play!

[tepples]

How work the Team Game ? does your teammate is in 2P local or network as well ? does the game mimic the TGM double mode or the 2 teammate playfield are strictly independant ? i mean i'm curious about the network asynchronism here All players are network connected. So you can not play with 2 players on 1 computer.

That dashes the hopes of people who would otherwise use a home theater PC to play. I don't want to have to buy a separate PC and a separate monitor for each person (including children) who live in the house. Or is the problem that Java can't see gamepads?

[Deniax]

How work the Team Game ? does your teammate is in 2P local or network as well ? does the game mimic the TGM double mode or the 2 teammate playfield are strictly independant ? i mean i'm curious about the network asynchronism here All players are network connected. So you can not play with 2 players on 1 computer.
That dashes the hopes of people who would otherwise use a home theater PC to play. I don't want to have to buy a separate PC and a separate monitor for each person (including children) who live in the house. Or is the problem that Java can't see gamepads?Well, I could still put support for gamepads in the game, Java does support it.

The only problem is, java based webgames aren't really HT friendly.


To play a game with our playmodel, you need to go to a web page, click on the game you want to play and login.


You could create a shortcut for the url and put it on your desktop, and you should logon using a username (can be cookied). If that's not a real problem, then we've got only 1 problem left.


This other problem is, that because the game is web based, you can't switch to full screen mode easy.


These options need some testing, which will be done next week, so I hope to have an answer for the 2 players on 1 computer incl gamepads in fullscreen question then http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

[Ghett0]

Hi deniax, welcome to the forums!

Regarding single player, I think most people here are reasonably content with what we already have: Texmaster, LockJaw and Heboris do a fantastic job.

Regarding multiplayer, there's a distinct lack of good online multiplayer tetris games out there at the moment. If you concentrated your efforts on the multiplayer side of things, and made something that: a) works on most people's computers, and b) is actually half decent, you'll have the market cornered.

Currently, for online play, there's Cultris, Quadra, and Blocktrix (based on TetriNET). Cultris has an over-emphasis on combos, and also a lot of people here have had difficulties getting it to run. Quadra has unconventional (cascade) gravity. Blocktrix does actually work for most people, and it's actually possible to play a fairly standard game of tetris; however, there are significant nagging flaws.

Basically, if you can look at Blocktrix, and fix all the flaws, you'll have a very decent game. These flaws include:
If you can rise to the challenge of making a decent multiplayer tetris, I'm sure everyone here will get very excited.


What? It's 10*20.

[muf]

What? It's 10*20.

*cough cough hack snort* (http://www.tetrisconcept.com/wiki/index.php?title=Tetrinet)

[Ghett0]

What? It's 10*20.
*cough cough hack snort* (http://www.tetrisconcept.com/wiki/index.php?title=Tetrinet)


I'm talking about Blockbox.

[muf]

I'm talking about Blockbox.
Doesn't matter what you think you were talking about, because you quoted edo, who was clearly talking about Blocktrix:
Basically, if you can look at Blocktrix, and fix all the flaws, you'll have a very decent game. These flaws include:
If you can rise to the challenge of making a decent multiplayer tetris, I'm sure everyone here will get very excited.


Next time, read the post you're quoting.

[Pineapple]

What? It's 10*20.

Nope. Blocktrix (and all TNet clones) are 12*22 visible.

[Deniax]

I think that in 2 weeks a beta version will be ready.


Thanks to input from guys like Lardarse, Edo and Muf, the following additions will be made and/or will be investigated: (Please note, all game modes are based on Ti and all separate game modes will have grading based on Ti)


- Support for playing Doubles in Single player ( http://youtube.com/watch?v=Jw-Lv4F_FSY )


- USB Gamepad support


- Every mode will have his own seperate highscore list (showing name, score, level and grade)


- Special achievements for making certain "art" (Like some examples in the "Tetris art" thread)


Still under investigation


When you better your highscore, a replay of your game will be stored. This means that every player you see in the highscore list, you can watch their replay.


Still to do before the beta is released:


- Test Shirase timings (I can't play Shirase http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif so I need to have help later on on this)

- Fix hold piece implementation (Now if you hold a piece, the next piece in the row also disappears)

- IRS doesn't work

- When lock delay is active, you can't instant lock the tetrimino if you dont want for the lock delay to finish

- SRS colors

- Sound effects

[Deniax]

New update!
The game is now in a far beta stadium.

First of all I would like to thank the following persons for their advise and testing of the game: Edo, Jujube, Mushroom, Colour Thief, Lee_n, Muf, Jago, Lardarse, Rosti_LFC
Second, the power of this game is that it will store all your scores, statistics, replays, key settings and all other options and is very user friendly. So no fiddling around, before you want to play a game.
And last, the game is being made for the community, so if the masses want something changed, no problem http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

Current features:

Single player
Classic play - A mixture of classic gameboy play with no DAS
MaraTion - Ti mode. Nuff said
Expert - Shirase mode
40 lines - Make 40 lines as fast as you can

Multiplayer (play against 1 or 4 opponents)
Rated - Like single player Ti, but now with garbage
Custom - See below for options

Team Game (You play with your teammate on 1 big field of 20 cells width)
MaraTion highsore attack
Expert mode highscore attack
Maration VS another team incl garbage
Custom - See below for options

Normal game-options:

- Big piece preview on/off
- Choose rotation scheme: ARS/SRS/BRS
- Next piece animation on/off
- Ability to simply select your controls , including a third rotation button

Custom settings:

- Play Marathon
- Play Expert mode
- Starting level
- Speed level,
- Fixed speed (for example 0G or 20G)
- Players who will play a VS game can use only ARS, only SRS or are free to chose either ARS or SRS

Community features:

Leaderboard:
- Direct updated
- Everyones highscore contains a replay that can be watched
- Different highscore entries for different game-options
- Team highscores support
- Also supports stuff like who's the fastest player in Ti sections like 100-200, 200-300 , etc
- Ability to see what rotation scheme was used to get a specific highscore
- Filter stuff like: shown only the sores of your friends

Team support:

- Create a team with another player and choose your teamname
- Teams will be stored, including highsores, replays, statistics
- Ability to be in multiple teams

[moxie101]

sound options and windowed mode

[Rosti LFC]

sound options and windowed mode

If these are requests, then I think it already has sound options, and it's played in a browser window to start with.

[Blink]

the screenshots looked awesome deniax, any estimation date for when a release will be available?

[Deniax]

It's difficult to say... If everything goes as planned, the game will come out next month.

Btw, a new feature will be added, the border of the game will change color the more close you come to not getting a cool. So like this:

You start a section with a blue border and it fades to grey at a fixed rate.
If it's completely grey, you missed a cool.
Then it fades to red when you're approaching a regret.
If it's completely red, you have a regret.
When a new session begins, the border should be blue again.

[herc]

your sceensho links do not work. may you post new ones ?

[Deniax]

Update:

Leaderboards: Working (EIHoppe is currently number one, who's going to dethrone him? http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif )
Replays: Working
SRS: Working
Torikan rule: Working
Sequence feature for Master & Shirase: Working (also in highscores)
Misc Shirase fixes: Done

Game will be released in 1 or 2 months.

People who want to play the game now, PM me!

[jujube]

great work Deniax. SRS feels correct, and so does expert mode as far as i can tell. one little bug i noticed: if i reached level 500 and the game ended there my rank was S4 when it should've been S5. only a section time regret somewhere would've put me at S4, but i didn't get one. i assume the grade isn't changing until the player reaches x01.

also, how do you watch replays? i couldn't figure that out.

[Deniax]

great work Deniax. SRS feels correct, and so does expert mode as far as i can tell. one little bug i noticed: if i reached level 500 and the game ended there my rank was S4 when it should've been S5. only a section time regret somewhere would've put me at S4, but i didn't get one. i assume the grade isn't changing until the player reaches x01.

also, how do you watch replays? i couldn't figure that out.I can't find this game, it seems you improved your highscore, now you have S7 and you reached level 703 in 04:10:60

Currently it's a bit inconvenient to view the highsores, you must start a game, die and then you can view the highscores http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif
But this will be changed, above the start button, next week there will be a highscore button where you can see the different highscores.

[Deniax]

Because quite some people already have a login and suggested ideas, I will begin posting what has been fixed when a new release has been made.

Today I've installed build 20080908-1502 with the following changes:

- The applet now remembers your last chosen gamemode
- Next round button is now visible when you finished a single player game
- The highscorelist now default select "all" rotation systems and not the one you have just played with
- Your own entry in the highscorelist, is highlighted so it's more easier to find
- 40 lines changes: DAS is now 16 ms with a delay of 133 ms
- BRS (BlockBox Rotation Scheme) now fully works
- If you've selected Single player, you dont have to press ACCEPT and then START to start the game. The ACCEPT button is removed in Single Player game
- The highscore screen of 40 lines now shows the time, not the score

TO DO list

- Save and load multiplayer replays
- When playing a single player game and you die, you should directly go to the leaderboard and not see your "rating screen"
- Highscore attack mode for Team play
- Next piece should be moved a bit to the left so it's directly in line with the spawning piece
- Sound engine implementation
- When you've got a new highscore when you died, it should show this with an animation
- Typing /noswoosj in the chat will disable the gray "swoosj" effect a piece has
- Replay controls: Press UP it will skip 1 minute , is you press DOWN it will reverse 1 minute, pressing RIGHT it will skip 10 seconds, pressing LEFT will go back 10 seconds
- Multiplayer mode for 40 lines
- When selecting Easy or 40 lines the sonic drop binding should Hard drop. The soft drop binding should do Sonic drop.
- Above the Start button will be a Highscore button. When you press the highscore button, it should show a dropdown menu of 4 other buttons: Easy, Marathon, Expert, 40 lines
- The player who's op top of the leaderboard , is on #0 bug
- You need to press the RS button on the leaderboard and select ALL twice to see all results
- Maybe regret bug in Marathon (TGM3 Ti Master)
- Custom game options. Create a game and change ALL timings you want by using commands like /20G /ARE25 , etc
- 40 lines: Lineclear & ARE timings should be set to 0
- Exams
- Extra custom option: Infinite lock delay

[Rosti LFC]

- The applet now remembers your last chosen gamemode
- Next round button is now visible when you finished a single player game


Superb, both of these will make playing a lot better.

[jujube]

oh, i figured out how to view top score replays. for anyone wondering, click on the little film reel looking thing under the "H" column in the leaderboard.

- The applet now remembers your last chosen gamemode
- Next round button is now visible when you finished a single player game


Superb, both of these will make playing a lot better.
i agree. it's always nice to restart a game quickly.

[Deniax]

Build20080909-1504 is installed

- Soundengine is done (note, if this causes lag, please mail your javaconsole to: bob@gamepoint.net (http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/mailto:bob?gamepoint.net) )
- Next piece alignment is now fixed. The spawned piece will not spawn 1 cell to the left of the "next piece" above it (Thanks Rosti)
- The applet should now REALLY remember your last chosen gamemode http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif (Thanks all)
- When selecting 40 lines, the firm drop button will have hard drop functionality and the soft drop button will have firm drop functionality (thanks Muf)
- Holding spacebar and doing an hard drop will not hold your piece anymore in easy mode (Thanks Kitaru)
- During ARE when you press and hold firm drop button, the next tetrimino will must drop instant with 20G after it spawns (Thanks Kitaru)
- When choosing 40 lines, Line Clear, ARE and gravity will be 0 (Thanks Muf)

[muf]

Oh. My. God. 40 Lines mode is so damn addicting. It takes a short while to get used to the insanely fast DAS, but when you do, it's so worth it.

[Deniax]

Another build has been installed http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

Build20080910-1507 contains:

- Single play mode only: When you press ALT+R when in game, you will restart the game.
- Dying/completing a single player game will transfer you directly to the highscores list now.
- When you complete the game (credit roll) your highscore will be saved. (Thanks Caffeine & Blink)
- The I piece in BRS, now spawns horizontal (Thanks Mushroom)
- In 40 lines mode, you will hear a sound (when I get one http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif ) when you hit 30, 20, 10 and 5 lines left (Thanks Kitaru)
- In 40 lines mode IRS is disabled. It's only enabled in the "are you ready part".(Thanks Kitaru) . All replays saved with IRS will be deleted because they are now broken http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif
- In 40 lines: You can only IRS once and that is by holding down rotate during countdown (Thanks Muf)
- Problem with ARS kicks . Now when doing a horizontal -> vertical rotation, the only kick that can be applied to an I block is a shift up one or two cells. In the previous version it shifted right or left. (Thanks Kitaru)
- Pressing VS play and then Single player again, now shows the start button again. In the previous version it showed an accept button requiring you to press it twice to begin the game. (Thanks Kitaru, the RSI saviour \o/ )
- Flash lock is now 1 frame long and wont be affected it you clear a line or dont clear a line (Thanks Kitaru & Edo)

[Deniax]

Build20080911-1508 is installed & running

- Problems with grading are fixed. (Thanks EIHoppe & Kitaru)
- Leaderboard now sorts: (Thanks Kitaru)
Marathon: grade, time grade was earned , level
Expert: grade, level, time

- When snooping and someone presses ALT+R, the game will not freeze anymore for the snooper. (Thanks myself http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif )
- At default , big next piece should be disabled (Thanks Kitaru)
- Game is now counting the last piece you died on as a level (Thanks Kitaru)


(Team play & sound is disabled until mondays release)

[Meroigo]

I think this is Java's fault... Today I started up Blockbox and Java (latest version) crashed, so I restarted Firefox (latest version, on Windows XP). When I had gotten back to the Blockbox website and started the game, it had no sound. I checked my sound setting in the game and Windows. Nothing wrong there. I tried rebooting the computer. Still no sound... Tried in Internet Explorer 7, no sound... I haven't changed any settings anywhere since I played it the last time. But I think the crash of Java may have messed something up... Any ideas of what to do? http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif Meow.

[Deniax]

It's not your fault http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
Sound & Teamplay were temporary disabled, but are active again.

[Meroigo]

Haha, sorry for not reading the latest post. XD I saw now that sound was disabled... http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif Thanks.

[LANAsiDOOG]

wow if this has a doubles online mode this is everything i've ever dreamed of http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif
can i beta test it??

[Deniax]

wow if this has a doubles online mode this is everything i've ever dreamed of
can i beta test it??Currently the team mode isn't ready yet. Also, the problem with doubles & online is lag. It's impossible to create a smooth online doubles mode.

What is possible (and that's the method I use), is the following:

Gamefield is 20 cells wide. Player one has the left 10 cells, player two has the right 10 cells. In the middle there will be a "forcefield" which prevents you to go to the others players field.
That way, lag won't matter that much. Anyway, a doubles mode will be implemented, with the only difference that you can't move your piece to your opponents field.

[muf]

the problem with doubles & online is lag. It's impossible to create a smooth online doubles mode.
It's pretty playable on Kaillera. It'll be a challenge, but I do intend to attempt to implement a satisfyingly playable online Doubles mode.

[Pineapple]

the problem with doubles & online is lag. It's impossible to create a smooth online doubles mode.
It's pretty playable on Kaillera. It'll be a challenge, but I do intend to attempt to implement a satisfyingly playable online Doubles mode.
I seem to remember Digital and Rosti nearly getting sub-5 over Kaillera.

[Rosti LFC]

We were a fraction away.
I don't doubt that we could get easily under 5 minutes now if we tried. It's been a long time since we did it, and I've improved a lot.

Kaillera having the problem of network lag and also input lag as well due to the version of Mame being used. As long as the game or somewhere knows where the pieces should be. It's rare for both players (if they're good) to try and place their pieces in the same place anyway.

[Deniax]

Ok, besides Team Play, the Doubles mode as you all know it from the famous game will be implemented. It's a very small change from what has been coded for Team Play anyway.

I will also have a look how to counter the lag as much as possible to make the gameplay as smooth as possible.

But don't expect Doubles in a couple of weeks, first single player must be perfect, there are ± 28 bugs left that need to be fixed and a dozen of features to be implemented

[LANAsiDOOG]

wait, so.. you are putting online doubles mode in? with players being able to move in the same field?

[Deniax]

wait, so.. you are putting online doubles mode in? with players being able to move in the same field?Yes, it will be implemented.

[Deniax]

Im having a problem. Currently my game displays the grade "live" just like texmaster. The only difference is that when you get a cool with my game (or a regret), your grade is also immediately updated. Now, this gives a problem for the rules initiating the invisible roll. I cant set it to S7 because of the liveupdating. Im thinking of setting it to (current live grade) - 9 . If this is S7 or higher, it will initiate the invisible roll

[muf]

Just maintain an internal grade counter, a cool counter, and a displayed grade counter.

[Deniax]

Tnx

Another important question:
For BlockBox, I want to define the ultimate setting for rated multiplayer game. Of course in the future, all timings&settings will be fully customizable, but there can only be one setting for RATED multiplayer. What non-changable settings should that be?

How much G?
What timings?
What garbage type?
Should timings change after for example 2 minutes?
Should you be able to play multiplayer against an SRS opponent if you have selected ARS
Things I forgot?

[Rosti LFC]

Use the 40 lines settings. Maybe have a 3 minute timer, after which 20G gets enforced.

[Kasumi]

Edit: It's very possible I'm misunderstanding what you mean when you say there can only be one setting for Rated multiplayer. If so, ignore my first paragraph.

I don't see why there can't be more than one rated game type. I think you should just have each "standard" mode allow for rated multiplayer, with a different rating for each. So people who play Expert will have an Expert rating, and if they also play 40 lines, they'll have a separate rating for that. I completely understand you don't want to have multiplayer ratings for completely custom games, but please at least consider having more than just one rated game mode. I think it'd be cool to see how I stack up against others in 20G and a "Master" type mode. Stuff like that. That being said, if there really can only be one, I'd prefer something similar to master mode, as opposed to 40 lines.

I don't know a lot about different garbage types, so I can't answer that one.

As for being able to play against someone with a different rotation system... I don't really see why not... but I would personally prefer to always play against someone who was using the same rotation system. If it's not too much trouble, perhaps you can make that an option as well?
"Only play against other using the same rotation system/No Preference"

Anyway, the game looks fantastic so far and I'll probably enjoy it no matter what you do with it. Keep up the good work.

[Blink]

Use the 40 lines settings. Maybe have a 3 minute timer, after which 20G gets enforced.

I second this.

[Rosti LFC]

I back the option for a setting of "only allow players with same rotation system" to be turned on or off. It does make a difference, especially at 20G, but if people don't mind about the shortfalls of whatever system they're using then they should be able to play.

[caffeine]

Random garbage. After two minutes, the well gets one row shorter every ten seconds (like solid rows of garbage comes up from underneath). Players get same sequence of tetrominoes and garbage.

[Rosti LFC]

Random garbage. After two minutes, the well gets one row shorter every ten seconds (like solid rows of garbage comes up from underneath). Players get same sequence of tetrominoes and garbage.

I never liked the shortening field thing that games like TOJ had. It gave every single game a finite time frame.
I really like it when you get an epic game that goes on for quite a while. I suppose it's different if both players are crap and taking ages, or if you've died and you're waiting for it to finish, but when I'm battling it out with someone for what feels like at least ten minutes it makes it even more tense, because the time you've invested is an extra incentive not to lose.

I agree with the random garbage though.

[caffeine]

It gave every single game a finite time frame.

Maybe I'm missing something. What's the point of changing to 20G after three minutes, then? I don't think it would really make either player die, but I thought maybe you thought it would.

[Deniax]

Thanks everybody for your input.

Multiplayer rated will be set with the following settings:

Gravity: 0G
DAS: 16 ms with delay of 133 ms
ARE: 0ms
Lockdelay: 0ms
Garbage: Random
Only play against other using the same rotation system: Off

Concerning having different ratings for different modes, that is "impossible" to make because of the many options that can be set (see my next post). Thats why I want only 1 "Official TC Setting". Of course, in custom mode you can set up a multiplayer game with the settings you want, but your rating won't be affected.

What the game will have other to rating & score is your "exam score" . This will be next to your rating, directly visible in the playerlist.

Now, the following ratings/highscores will be saved:

Single Player
Easy/Classic (Score will be saved)
MaraTion (Grade and Timescores (0-100, etc) will be saved)
Expert (Grade and Timescores (0-100, etc) will be saved)
40 lines (Time will be saved)

Multiplayer
Rated (your rating will be saved)

Team Highscore attack
Your teamscore for MaraTion (Grade and Timescores (0-100, etc) will be saved)
Your teamscore for Expert (Grade and Timescores (0-100, etc) will be saved)
Your teamscore for 40 lines (Time will be saved)

Team Highscore Rated (Team vs Team)
Rated (your rating will be saved)

[Deniax]

You will be able to set the following Custom Game options when creating a Multiplayer game:

Rotation System (ARS,SRS,BRS)
Only allow players with same rotation system (yes/no)
ARE (set in milliseconds)
Line Clear delay (set in milliseconds)
Lock delay (set in milliseconds)
DAS (two entries, speed & delay set in ms)
Lockdown (entry reset / step reset)
Floor kicks (0- 99)
Hold Piece on/off
IRS (on/off)
Garbage (BGS, Tennis, Random, GM, Off)

Am I missing some options you guys would like to see?

[Rosti LFC]

There should be some sort of DAS value which isn't zero for the default settings.

[Deniax]

Oops, for rated, DAS is set to 16 ms and delay of 133 ms and no 0 as I wrote http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif

[Ezzelin]

You will be able to set the following Custom Game options when creating a Multiplayer game:

Rotation System (ARS,SRS,BRS)
Only allow players with same rotation system (yes/no)
ARE (set in milliseconds)
Line Clear delay (set in milliseconds)
Lock delay (set in milliseconds)
DAS (two entries, speed & delay set in ms)
Lockdown (entry reset / step reset)
Floor kicks (0- 99)
Hold Piece on/off
IRS (on/off)
Garbage (BGS, Tennis, Random, GM, Off)

Am I missing some options you guys would like to see?

What about number of preview pieces? Ideally this should be set for all players in the match. And I'm not sure if your game detects T-Spins, B2Bs, or combos, but if it does, the ability to turn off those features is vital.

[Deniax]

A that is a nice one.

Preview pieces: Off & 1,2,3 or 4 (the max possible in the game)

[Ezzelin]

A that is a nice one.

Preview pieces: Off & 1,2,3 or 4 (the max possible in the game)

So right after I edited my above post, I saw you quickly reply. I'll put my edit in a separate post then: I'm not sure if your game detects T-Spins, B2Bs, or combos, but if it does, the ability to turn off those features is vital.

[muf]

I would say: Off, 1, 3, or 7 previews. Do keep in mind that because of the nature of the randomiser (piece set is predetermined at game start) people could always set a watchpoint to give themselves more previews, and there is little you could do about it.

[Burbruee]

Not related to the gameplay: In multiplayer there should be a number indicating how many rounds each player has won. Let's say we have 4 players playing a game and before they started they decide "first to 10 wins" or "best of 7" etc. So as long as they decide to continue playing there should be an indication of how many rounds each player has won so they don't have to count manually.
And another small thing: Timestamps in chat?

Also: Highscores gone from the game at the moment?

[orz]

any word on a release date for this?

i'm pretty excited

[Deniax]

Burbruee: When the game starts and you see (%playername, are you ready? 3..2..1..Go) , at the bottom I could make it so that you see:
Won: 9
Lost: 1

Timestamps, maybe later

Orange:

I hope in 2 months. This is somewhat later than I had planned, this is because of the implementation of new features such as TGM and TGM2 gameplay implementation, Doubles, the ability to save and load replays and other 22 open issues

[LANAsiDOOG]

awesome job so far, you are very skilled! i can't wait for the doubles implementation

[Deniax]

Concerning the Tournament/Custom Options, I have two questions for the following options:

Lockdown (entry reset / step reset* / move reset / classic)
entry reset : Every new piece has its own locktime which wont reset
step reset: Lock delay resets when a piece moves down
move reset: Lock delay resets when a piece moves
classic: Direct lock when piece lands

With the bold option, what should happen if SRS is selected? Should SRS overrule this, or should SRS benefit from this option?


Also: Floor kicks (0- 99)

What if ARS is selected where you can do only 1 floorkick? I guess the Floor kick section should overrule it?

[tepples]

SRS doesn't force move reset in Lockjaw. Perhaps another lockdown option "Set by rotation system" might help.

And you actually don't need "classic" if you have "entry reset" and ability to reduce lock delay to 1 frame or less. But if you'll be supporting "classic", carefully consider your definition of "landed" as it relates to fractional Y coordinates.

[Deniax]

Build 8.0.8-Build20081001-1544 is now installed and running

Please bare with me that there could be bugs in the Tournament/Custom multiplayer options. If you find any, please let me know.


CHANGES

- When SRS is selected, the firm drop button now really firm drops (so no more lock delay).
- Fixed a bug that in some situations could lead to a crash
- Fixed a bug in the Highscore server which sometimes caused your highscore not to appear immediately (Thanks Red Star)

- Multiplayer Tournament / Custom options (Thanks all at Tetrisconcept and thanks Tepples for letting me use quite some custom options from Lockjaw)

Rotation System (ARS,SRS,BRS,ALL*)
This selects the Rotation System that can be used. So if SRS is selected, all players will use SRS. If ALL is selected, the players current set rotation system will be used.

Gravity (0* - 20)
You can fill in two digits, ranging from 0 to 20

ARE (set in frames , default =0)
You can fill in two digits, ranging from 0 to 99

Line Clear delay (set in frames, default =0)
You can fill in two digits, ranging from 0 to 99

Lock delay (set in frames, default =0)
You can fill in two digits, ranging from 0 to 99

DAS 4 everyone (enabled*/disabled)
If enabled, everyone who joins a game gets an overlay telling the player:
DAS 4 everyone is enabled, please set your DAS settings (DAS Speed & DAS Delay)

Also, if its enabled, the following 2 DAS options will be grayed out:

DAS speed (set in frames)
You can fill in two digits for speed

DAS delay (set in frames)
You can fill in three digits for delay

Lockdown (entry reset / step reset* / move reset / classic)
entry reset : Every new piece has its own locktime which wont reset
step reset: Lock delay resets when a piece moves down
move reset: Lock delay resets when a piece moves
classic: Direct lock when piece lands

Floor kicks (0- 99, default = 1)
You can fill in two digits, ranging from 0 to 99 for the number of floor kicks that are permitted

Hold Piece (on*/off)
Dropdown menu with on/off option

IRS (on*/off)
Dropdown menu with on/off option

Garbage (BGS, *Tennis, Random, GM, Off)
Dropdown menu with the garbage options

T-Spins & B2B (On / Off *)
Dropdown menu with the options

Number of preview (0, 1 or 3*)
Dropdown menu 0, 1 or 3

[Ezzelin]

Gravity (0* - 20)
You can fill in two digits, ranging from 0 to 20

I see that this Gravity setting is in G. However, this makes it so the user cannot set anything slower than 1G and in general does not allow for very fine grained control. Possibly a better measurement here would be a number that is equal to how many frames (assuming 60fps) it takes for a piece to drop a square. Therefore, 60 = 1G, 120 = 2G, lower than 60 is progressively slower, and 1200 is 20G. I believe this is how Heboris does it.

T-Spins & B2B (On / Off *)
Dropdown menu with the options

Shouldn't these be separate options?

The other thing I noticed is that when I set the speed to 20G and pressed the lock button, the board instantly filled up with pieces. I think the game should probably wait for the lock button to be released before it locks another piece, right?

Other suggestions I have would be to have presets for the different game types out there, like TGM1, TGM2, Death, TGM3, Shirase, TDS, etc. That way people could quickly have fun VS matches with familiar settings and a minimum of fuss. Also, putting all of the options, including the presets, into the single player section would be nice as well.

edit: It would also be nice if at some point an offline version could be made. I have a small UMPC type computer, and it isn't always on the net, so a downloadable version would be really handy for me and others as well.

[muf]

I see that this Gravity setting is in G. However, this makes it so the user cannot set anything slower than 1G and in general does not allow for very fine grained control. Possibly a better measurement here would be a number that is equal to how many frames (assuming 60fps) it takes for a piece to drop a square. Therefore, 60 = 1G, 120 = 2G, lower than 60 is progressively slower, and 1200 is 20G. I believe this is how Heboris does it.
Heboris Mini does it the same way as TAP:
Gravity = value / 256
Thusly, 5120 = 20G

[Deniax]

8.1.0-Build20081003-1549

IMPORTANT, don't press the practice button, because the applet will freeze. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif

Changes:

Fixed bugs:

- Soft drop behaviour in multiplayer is now correct. Pressing & holding soft drop won't carry over to the next piece anymore (Thanks Rosti & Caffeine)
- Fixed bug that sometimes in 40 lines when you would finish with clearing 2 lines, the game would freeze
- Fixed the problem that level and rotation scheme are on top of each other in the highscorelist.

New features:

- Added GM (Garbage Master) garbage (TGM style)
- Added 30% garbage (TDS style) (Thanks Blink)
- New custom option called "Garbage Distro".. It has two options: Garbage 2 all (default) and Garbage to single. Garbage 2 all means that when there are 4 players in the game and 1 one them sends 3 lines of garbage, all players will get 3 lines of garbage (Thanks Caffeine)
- In Custom mode, T-spins and B2B are now separated from each other (Thanks Ezzelin)
- Changed the default values in Custom game (Thanks Caffeine)
- Custom mode VS: Gravity should be filled in in G now ( Gravity = value / 256 ) (Thanks Ezzelin)
- When starting a custom game where the "DAS 4 EVERYONE" option is enabled, you will get an overlay asking you to fill in the DAS delay & speed. Please note that you must fill in the DAS speed in G!!
- Highscore field now supports longer names
- Removed grades/cools/regrets from multiplayer games
- Leaderboard now supports 1 million+ users and will still be very fast when browsing through the results (Who knows where to find 1 million users that will play the game? http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif )
- In VS games, you won't be able to start a game until everyone is ready. This gives players the time to see the settings (handy when you're joining a custom game)

[Deniax]

And again another version http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

Version 8.1.1-Build20081006-1551

Fixed bugs for this release:

- Soft drop input now doesn't carry over to the next piece anymore in Marathon (TGM3 Ti mode)
- Fixed a bug that pressing&holding left or right did not get carried over to the next piece (so no DAS was possible)
- Credit roll graphical glitches fixed
- Multiplayer rated now uses ARE 0, Line Clear 0 as settings

Todo features:

- TGM, TAP, TAP+ single&multiplayer complete with replay&leaderboard functionality
- Personal statistics showing you all your current grades for all modes
- TAP: Doubles
- Ability to save & load replays (single player, multiplayer, teams, etc)
- Multiplayer 40 lines (play 40 lines against each other)
- When playing a team game, you will be able to choose between Beat the Score Marathon or Expert. This is basically the same as single player, but now as a team, you must get the highest possible grade possible for the leaderboards
- Add a command /noswoosj to remove the piece trail you see when you use hard drop (Thanks Kitaru)
- When you're viewing a replay, pressing UP will skip 1 minute , if you press DOWN it will reverse 1 minute, pressing RIGHT it will skip 10 seconds, pressing LEFT will go back 10 seconds
- On the mainscreen there will be a highscore button so you can access the highscores more conveniently
- Presets for custom multiplayer: TDS, TAP, Ti (So you don't have to make all the custom settings yourself)
- "Play Blockbox while waiting for new round in multiplayer" (Thanks Meroigo)

Todo bugs:

- In team-mode, sometimes the pieces get stuck in mid air
- Filtering on your friends doesn't work in the highscore list
- When watching a replay, it says your name, like you are the one playing (Thanks Kitaru)
- When you are snooping and the game ends, you see an empty replay field
- In a game, press Alt+R and before releasing Alt, press Space, then release everything. Then start playing (it holds every piece that spawns) (Thanks Kitaru)

[Deniax]

Hi all,

Thanks for all the input, even in the hectic TOJ time http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
Special thanks for this "Muf-release" goes to Muf http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif

TGM3 Ti Master & Shirase should now be better emulated then what Texmaster and Heboris do.
Please, if you find any problems let me know!
I will now start work on TGM, TAP, TAP+ and Doubles


Fixed bugs for this release:

- Initial shift bug has been fixed (Thanks Muf) (Please note, that because of this change, the replays that were stored before this release are broken)
- In custom options, DAS speed has been renamed to Shift gravity and DAS speed has been renamed to DAS (Thanks Muf)
- Fixed a problem that sometimes in multiplayer some players would begin faster than others (Thanks Muf)
- In 40 lines, you will game over after 59 minutes. Otherwise you could cheat and get a new highscore in 40 lines http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif (Thanks Muf)
- Bug in the Torikan rule: For example Expert, when you clear 4 lines at level 499 , your time is up at level 503. Now it should pull back to level 500 (Thanks Kitaru)
- Wachting a player play won't freeze your game anymore
- Fixed a problem that sometimes some options would become grayed-out/not selectable
- When you're last on the highsorelist page, the bottom of the page won't highlight anymore.
- Fixed a bug in the Multiplayer rated system
- Fixed a problem that when you maneuver a piece in such a way that one cell of the piece is on row 21 and then you make a line(and thus the whole piece should be visible), the cell of that piece that was in row 21 or 22, isn't visible.

New features for this release:

- Added line clear sounds (Thanks Heboris http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif )
- Added "combo garbage option" to the custom options (Thanks Blink)
- Custom game settings will be reset to default when you leave custom game
- Animations & sounds when someone in multiplayer wins multiple times
- New Highscore animation time has drastically been shortened

[Rosti LFC]

Nice one Deniax. I think it's really good how committed you are to the development of this thing and fixing every possible niggling bug.

[Deniax]

Hi guys,

Yesterday Muf, Digital, Red Star, AI and me had fun playing multiplayer BlockBox, Now, playing a rated game with 5 players means that the games will
be very short because of the many garbage you can get.

Currently the garbage distribution system works like this:

player A makes garbage for player B
When he makes garbage next time it will send to player C, then to player D and tho player B again.
So it is possible that one player will get garbage from 2 other players.

For example in star craft, the same situation exists: (1x1x1...). You can die after 2-3 minutes and it is not very important if you are a good player or not.
But good players in games like 1x1 or 2x2 last much longer then in 1x1x1x1...


What could be solutions to make games a bit more longer? And is this wishable? Or should I make multiplayer games with 3+ players last longer? And if yes, any suggestions?

[muf]

Make garbage targets exclusive, e.g. if player B is targeted by player A he cannot be targeted by player C until player A targets another player.

[colour_thief]

Couldn't 2 players target each other and get singles until the other players top out? And when the other opponents were whittled down to a single remaining opponent... He'd have no one to target but himself? How would that work exactly?

[muf]

Couldn't 2 players target each other and get singles until the other players top out? And when the other opponents were whittled down to a single remaining opponent... He'd have no one to target but himself? How would that work exactly?
Two players could target eachother, but only for a short while until the targets cycle again. And what do you mean with "whittled down to a single remaining opponent"? With three players, player A can target player B, player B can target player C and player C can target player A. Shuffle that around and there'll always be a target for everyone. With two players, there is only one possible target for each player, player A must target player B and vice versa. I don't see the problem. With team games, if it's two against one because a player's teammate died, that's tough luck for the remaining player then, he will get double-dicked. He can punch his teammate in the face after the match for topping out too early http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_exclaim.gif

[tepples]

In Super Smash Bros. series, "stock" battles allow a player to leave the arena up to four times before being eliminated. DTET also has stock: a player can top out several times, losing a life each time.

In Super Smash Bros. series, "time" battles run for a specified amount of time. A point is taken from the player who topped out, and the last player to send garbage to that player (if any) gets a point. The winner is the player with the highest score at the buzzer, often the only player with a positive score. Players tied for the highest score enter a 1-stock sudden death match at high damage, which might correspond to a low-height tetromino game match.

Do you plan on adding time or stock battles?

[Deniax]

Concerning Garbage, I like Muf his idea. It's fair and works! I will bring out a new build this evening.

TepplesIn Super Smash Bros. series, "time" battles run for a specified amount of time. A point is taken from the player who topped out, and the last player to send garbage to that player (if any) gets a point. The winner is the player with the highest score at the buzzer, often the only player with a positive score. Players tied for the highest score enter a 1-stock sudden death match at high damage, which might correspond to a low-height tetromino game match.That is a very nice feature! I will certainly make a "stock battle" option in the custom multiplayer settings.

Thanks all for the input

[Red_Star]

In Cultris the garbage is just sent to the person has received the lowest amount of garbage. It worked surprisingly well for a game that sends a lot of garbage at once. There was a few errors in the design though that happened when two players sent garbage at nearly the same time. Sometimes, both of the players would send it to whoever received the least amount of garbage so far which usually destroyed the person instantly.

The stock system sounds pretty cool. I can see some games with pretty amazing come backs with a stock system.

[colour_thief]

And what do you mean with "whittled down to a single remaining opponent"? With three players, player A can target player B, player B can target player C and player C can target player A.

I was thinking you could shoose your own target with 3+ players.

I think if you guys are going to be influenced by other competitive games, why not FPSs? Have timed matches where instead of competing for frags you compete for fewest losses. Instead of cycling through maps you could cycle through game rules. In fact, some game rules could include no garbage at all, so that, say, 2 people could compete in death mode by trying to die less in 10 minutes than their opponent. It would really force you to keep playing despite misdrops and focus on recovery.

[muf]

In fact, some game rules could include no garbage at all, so that, say, 2 people could compete in death mode by trying to die less in 10 minutes than their opponent. It would really force you to keep playing despite misdrops and focus on recovery.
I have modes like that planned for GMO, called "Race" mode. You play a single player game and the person with the highest score (least deaths, highest grade/level, fastest time) wins.

[tepples]

I was thinking you could shoose your own target with 3+ players.
That's how it works in Meteos: each player can choose to send round-robin garbage or target one player. It's less true of Smash Bros., as each player can dodge being targeted by running to the other end of the arena.

In fact, some game rules could include no garbage at all, so that, say, 2 people could compete in death mode by trying to die less in 10 minutes than their opponent. It would really force you to keep playing despite misdrops and focus on recovery.
I've seen this mode. In fact, I seem to remember putting a mode like this into freepuzzlearena Tetanus (1999, for DOS). But then you'd have to use "finity" (not infinity) lockdown, which has two concurrent lock delays: one with move or step reset and a longer one with entry reset, so that a player couldn't just ride spinnaz (http://infinitespin.ytmnd.com/default.htm) for 10 minutes like CPU opponent Nachanca did to me in The New Tetris for N64.

[Deniax]

Version 8.1.3-Build20081010-1557 is now installed


New features

- New garbage distribution system (Thanks Muf)

Bug fixes

- Now really all snoop/watch bugs should be fixed http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif


If no new critical bugs are found, for 1 or 2 weeks there wont be a new version. The next version of BlockBox will have TGM & TAP support.

[jujube]

In Cultris the garbage is just sent to the person has received the lowest amount of garbage. It worked surprisingly well for a game that sends a lot of garbage at once.
that makes a lot of sense to me. it would be impossible to target anybody.

There was a few errors in the design though that happened when two players sent garbage at nearly the same time. Sometimes, both of the players would send it to whoever received the least amount of garbage so far which usually destroyed the person instantly.
that sounds like a bug, and one that could've been fixed pretty easily. there should be a check before garbage is sent, and if, say more than 7 lines are being sent to one player, then the garbage should be split and sent to the two players who've received the least (excluding the players who did the sending).

if each garbage attack you sent went to a different player, you could target by making a skim double towards one player, and a tetris towards the player you're targeting. if several players did this, one player could be attacked very forcefully. but at least Deniax's system wouldn't allow for "sit and wait" targeting like i've seen in TDS and TOJ. the winning strategy shouldn't be to stack, wait, wait, wait, tetris. and maybe some people like targeting because it brings a little more strategy to the game, so i'm not trying to say there shouldn't be a garbage distribution setting that allows for that. but i really like the Cultris method and hope it gets added to your game Deniax.

[DIGITAL]

I'm not really a fan of targetting either so the Cultris system makes a lot of sense to me as well.

[Deniax]

The Cultris garbage system will be build in then http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

Although it would only take a couple of hours to implement the feature and release a new version, I first want to finish TGM and TAP, I'm being delaying it too much. So with a bit of luck, there will be an release next week where both TGM,TAP and Cultris garbage will be built in.

The only question that remains, what should be the default garbage type for a rated multiplayer game?

[caffeine]

I suggested all players receive all garbage, but apparently you guys think the games are too short that way. The Cultris method (not including the glitch) is not totally fair. If player A sends a tetris to player B, and player B sends a double to player C, then player C will have an advantage over B. Any type of targeting system is a lazy way of solving the "games are too fast" problem.

I recommend a fairer distribution system. Divide the outgoing garbage(e.g. a triple's outgoing garbage = 2) by total opponents alive, round any remainder up, and send that number of garbage to all players. Say player A makes a triple and there are four opponents left. That means 2/4=.5 rounded to 1. All opponents receive a single row of garbage.

   Opponents   One   Two   Three   Four
Attack

Single         0      0      0      0

Double         1      1      1      1

Triple         2      2      1      1

Blokkendoos!   4      2      2      1


As you can see, this greatly curbs all players' total garbage expectancy in a fair manner. Yes it means occasionally a double will be worth as much as a Blokkendoos. But that only will happen at the beginning of the game. The closer you come to 1on1, the more important it becomes to make riskier line clears. In any case, it's better than getting beaten unfairly.

EDIT
"The only question that remains, what should be the default garbage type for a rated multiplayer game?" Definitely random. Make attacks hurt. See-saws are for kids.

EDIT2

On second thought, I don't see any reason not to modify the chart in order to make larger line clears always desirable.

   Opponents   One   Two   Three   Four
Attack

Single         0      0      0      0

Double         1      1      0      0

Triple         2      2      1      1

Blokkendoos!   4      3      2      2

[Crayon]

I have to say that this game is really turning out to be something great. The other PC tetris games I've played don't seem nearly as polished as this. I'm not going to get into the garbage system because I really don't play enough multiplayer tetris for my opinion to matter at all. On that same note I'm really excited for the stand alone version of the game.

I did have one little thing to mention though. I got on today to play Marathon and the J piece starts point up. In the versions of TGM that I have played it starts point down. This is really minor, but it screwed me up enough that I thought I would let you know.

[muf]

I did have one little thing to mention though. I got on today to play Marathon and the J piece starts point up. In the versions of TGM that I have played it starts point down. This is really minor, but it screwed me up enough that I thought I would let you know.
Change your rotation system to classic.

[Crayon]

Wow, I feel stupid now. I don't remember changing it, and I had no idea it changed the starting orientation. Thanks.

[Red_Star]

In the Cultris forums we have actually discussed a garbage system slightly like the one Caffeine suggested. Insane combos could only affect one person which in a room of 9 people was kind of useless because it left you open to your opponents right after you did it. I like the idea of distributing smaller garbage to other people for getting something like a Blokkendoo.

I think garbage system should definitely target the person who has received the least amount of garbage. There will be instances where one guy receives a line and the next guy will get 4 lines, but that isn't as bad as a random targeting system. That sounds like there can be times when someone receives garbage from different people in a row, or someone not getting little to no garbage. A random system sounds like it adds more of a luck factor into it. I've never played a game with that type of garbage distribution, but it doesn't sound that good to me. I guess I would have to play some games with that kind of system to see how it is.

[caffeine]

"I've never played a game with that type of garbage distribution, but it doesn't sound that good to me."

In Tetris Evolution, it works very well.

[Pineapple]

I did propose something in IRC once, where you would do one line to your target for a double, 1 line to target and 1 line to all (so the target gets 2 lines) for a triple, and 2 to target + 2 to all for a tetris. I was also expanding this idea and combining it with the idea of the person who has received the least garbage, but in a much more fluid way. However, all work on that is on my laptop, which I haven't been able to turn on for 2 weeks because the charger has stopped working...

[Deniax]

I will implement more and more garbage types as the game comes closer to a release candidate.
It's not very difficult to implement them

[Deniax]

I've got a question concerning decay rate:

1) When you clear 1 line, is decay rate frozen? Or must you clear 1 line and then again 1 line (combo) to freeze it?

2) TGM3: In the beginning decay rate = 125 which is only 2 seconds. This means that if you dont clear a line, you will lose a grade point every 2 seconds?

[mushroom]

1) a single will only maintain the current combo, it won't add to it. if combo > 1, then decay rate is frozen.

2)Yes, for every 125 frames of active time with combo = 1, one grade point will be lost.

[colour_thief]

Yeah, mushroom got it right.

[Deniax]

Thanks!

What if I make a double/tripple/4lines with 1 piece? Is this also counted as a combo?
Or is a combo: clearing one or more lines when you have cleared one or more lines with a previous piece?

[colour_thief]

From a combo-less start, if you clear a double or greater, the next pieces's active time does not drain grade points regardless of whether you clear lines with that piece or not.

Once a combo is started, it is kept alive by any line clears including singles. When you place a piece that does not clear a line, starting with the next piece active time drains grade points.

[Deniax]

Great, thank you!

[Deniax]

Build 8.1.6-Build20081017-1563 is now installed

(When playing, be sure to have update 10 installed of java! It's just out can improve performance quite a lot. Download it here: https://cds.sun.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/CDS-CDS_Developer-Site/en_US/-/USD/ViewProductDetail-Start?ProductRef=jre-6u10-oth-JPR@CDS-CDS_Developer (http://https?cds.sun.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/CDS-CDS_Developer-Site/en_US/-/USD/ViewProductDetail-Start?ProductRef=jre-6u10-oth-JPR_40CDS-CDS_Developer)

New feature:

- TA Death mode can be chosen by pressing the expert button and chosing the "Sunglass Tetrimino icon" (highscores & replays aren't saved yet, will be fixed next week)

Fixed bugs:

- DAS bug fixed (Press and hold left or right. Then while keeping it pressed, press hold. The holded piece spawns at the left or right wall) (thanks Muf) (REPLAYS BEFORE THIS VERSION CAN BE BROKEN BECAUSE OF THIS FIX)
- Clearing lines in credit roll sometimes makes some pieces visible (thanks Caffeine)
- Changed speed settings to: (Thanks everyone on IRC) (This means the grades in the highscore are not correct http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif But when the game goes live with 100% correct emulation of all, the highscores will be deleted so they will show the honest&correct highscores)

Cool = skip speedsection.
Regret = dont skip speedsection
No cool and no regret = dont skip speedsection
Cool + regret = skip speedsection

- Changes as to when you see that you got a cool or a regret: (Thanks everyone on IRC)

Show the Cool animation in level x80
Show the Regret animation in level x00

- No soundcard installed or driver not detected wont freeze the game (Thanks EIHoppe)

[Deniax]

Version 8.1.8-Build20081020-1565

Bug fixes

- Behavior bug: When you press&hold soft drop --> piece hits floor --> locktime starts to deplete --> rotate --> the piece locks immediately <-- fixed (Thanks Jujube)

- In SRS, pressing and holding soft drop, should not cancel lock delay anymore when the piece hits the floor or another piece (Thanks Jujube)

- In SRS, when pressing&holding hard drop, the behavior will not carry over to the next spawned piece anymore (Thanks Jujube)

- Fixed that 3 or more single clears after each other would give you garbage when combo = off in Custom Multiplayer Mode (Thanks Blink)

- Fixed a bug with TGM3 decay rate not counted right (this means that the grades you got in the previous versions are a bit too high) (Thanks Muf, Colour-Thief, Mushrom, Kitaru)

- Score in TA Death is working (Replays and Highscores are not working the ones you see are from Shirase)

[KevinDDR]

I think I found a strange bug. In any SRS mode, DAS to the wall followed by a move in the opposite direction does not work. So far, I've reproduced the problem on two PCs using Firefox. I'm not sure if the bug applies in ARS as well, but you might wanna check it out. It certainly wasn't there before the recent updates.

[jujube]

those bugs seem to be fixed deniax, thanks.

blink and i were just playing a few games with TGM garbage, and we noticed that singles were sending garbage (with combos turned off). i'm not really familiar with this garbage, but blink was saying that singles shouldn't send anything. we did notice that the holes filled by the sender were identical to the holes received, which is correct from what i've heard.

[Pineapple]

blink and i were just playing a few games with TGM garbage, and we noticed that singles were sending garbage (with combos turned off). i'm not really familiar with this garbage, but blink was saying that singles shouldn't send anything. we did notice that the holes filled by the sender were identical to the holes received, which is correct from what i've heard.
TGM should be 0/2/3/4 (0/4/6/8 with a bravo, no T-spin combo or b2b bonuses) with the garbage pattern matching what was there before the clearing piece was added, but the lines should be delivered upside down (so an L triple sends 3 lines, and the line of garbage with 2 holes should appear at the bottom of the 3).

[Burbruee]

I think I found a strange bug. In any SRS mode, DAS to the wall followed by a move in the opposite direction does not work. So far, I've reproduced the problem on two PCs using Firefox. I'm not sure if the bug applies in ARS as well, but you might wanna check it out. It certainly wasn't there before the recent updates.
Yes, this happened to me too a lot last night.

[Deniax]

I think I found a strange bug. In any SRS mode, DAS to the wall followed by a move in the opposite direction does not work. So far, I've reproduced the problem on two PCs using Firefox. I'm not sure if the bug applies in ARS as well, but you might wanna check it out. It certainly wasn't there before the recent updates.Yeah, it's in ARS too. It will be fixed in the new release which is coming out in ± 12 hours.


jujubeblink and i were just playing a few games with TGM garbage, and we noticed that singles were sending garbage (with combos turned off). i'm not really familiar with this garbage, but blink was saying that singles shouldn't send anything. we did notice that the holes filled by the sender were identical to the holes received, which is correct from what i've heard.Yeah, it's a stupid bug http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif
Will also be fixed in the new release today.

Hopefully I will also be able to finish 8 way movement.

[Deniax]

Unfortunately, no 8-way movement yet, I had to fix some late behavior bugs that came up.
Hopefully tomorrow http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif Also tomorrow will be fixed that you can hard/firm drop while pressing left or right

Version 8.1.8-Build20081020-1565

Fixed bugs

- Critical bug in TGM garbage fixed: Singles aren't adding 1 garbage anymore. Garbage was 1/2/3/4 where its 0/2/3/4 now (Thanks Blink & Jujube)

- Critical bug in movement behavior fixed. DAS to the wall and then DAS to the other wall. If you do this quickly, the piece sometimes would not move (Thanks Jujube)

- Another critical bug in the movement: When you presssed+hold left or right and then rapid pressed soft drop, this canceled the gravity


New feature

When you select a rotation scheme and go to the controls, the name of the drops will change to correspond to the rotation scheme.

ARS: Firm drop (default up), Soft drop (default down)
SRS: Hard drop (default up), Soft drop (default down)
BRS: Hard drop (default up), Soft drop (default down)

[jujube]

Fixed bugs

- Critical bug in movement behavior fixed. DAS to the wall and then DAS to the other wall. If you do this quickly, the piece sometimes would not move (Thanks Jujube)
actually it was Kevin that pointed out the bug http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

but i'd like to add something on the same subject. let's say you press and hold left, then press right. ideally the piece should cease moving left and start moving right (doesn't work in Blockbox). then if you release right with left still held, the piece should go back to the left (does works in Blockbox). this is a small detail, but if you're doing a DAS + tap back, there's really no reason why you should have to release the first key before tapping the other. it's a little quicker to tap back while releasing the first key.

this behavior works partially in Lockjaw if you want to see what i'm talking about (left overrides right, but right does not override left). i think i let tepples know about the inconsistency, but that was around the time that he'd taken a break from working on his game. either left or right should be able to override the other.

[Deniax]

Sorry for the day delay http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif

Version 8.1.9-Build20081023-1568 is installed

New features

- 8 way movement (enable it in Controls. 8 way will only work in 40 lines & multiplayer)
- TGM1 is now ready. To select press the Marathon button. TGM1 = Marathon , TGM3 = Marathon 3. (Do not select the others, TAP will be ready tomorrow and pressing it now will crash the applet)
- New behavior feature. Pressing and holding left, then press right. The piece should cease moving left and start moving right.
Then if you release right with left still held, the piece should go back to the left.

Bug fixes

- Several piece behaviors
- Disabled floor kicks in Marathon (TGM) and TA Death (Expert)
- The tripple win animation is now spelled with 1 P http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

Notes:

- Snooping seems broken with this release. Will be fixed tomorrow.
- Highscore for TA death shows the Shirase highscores http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif Will be fixed tomorrow

[jujube]

New features

- 8 way movement (enable it in Controls. 8 way will only work in 40 lines & multiplayer)
works.

- New behavior feature. Pressing and holding left, then press right. The piece should cease moving left and start moving right.
Then if you release right with left still held, the piece should go back to the left.
works.

thanks for the updates. everything feels great now http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[Deniax]

Nice to hear that Jujube, and thank you for your time to explain it to me

[Deniax]

And another new version is installed http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

Version 8.1.9-Build20081024-1573

New features

- Multiplayer ARS & SRS behaviors in custom are now the same as in Rated
- TAP Master mode implemented* including leaderboard support (It's called Marathon 2)

Bugfixes

- Highscores and replays now work for TA Death


* Important question concerning ARE during DAS in TAP Master. I don't really understand it, so I hope someone can help me out.
I have the info beneath which I've quoted, but I still don't really understand how "DAS during ARE" should behave and or works.

The info I have: During ARE DAS is won't be reset by the right nor left being pressed. During active time it's only reset by pressing a direction.

This means if you DAS to a wall and then lock and a line clears your DAS is still charged and you can change directions during the line
clear animation because the game should ignore all input at that time.

This keeps your DAS fully charged!

Or another way of telling it: Start counting from 0 and then count from 1 during ARE. So if you press left during active time DAS is reset to 0 so your frames give you: 0, 1, 2, 3 etc

During ARE DAS is only reset by the neutral position. So if your DAS is 0 and you press left: 1,2,3,4,etc

[colour_thief]

It would be nice if there were a way to start a new game without taking your hands off the controls to the mouse. Maybe there is and I just don't know about it? Anyhow, it's a mild annoyance on keyboard but with an arcade stick it's more troublesome.

Also, ARS in 40 lines and VS hasup/down inverted. This should be changed so that people can do zangi moves with the same muscle memory as TGM games. I'm surprised other ARS players haven't mentioned this yet.

[Deniax]

It would be nice if there were a way to start a new game without taking your hands off the controls to the mouse. Maybe there is and I just don't know about it? Anyhow, it's a mild annoyance on keyboard but with an arcade stick it's more troublesome.From IRC:

In the game-over overlay (where you must choose between leave game or next round)
C+Right for next round or C+Left for leave game

For an instant restart of the game, next to ALT+R , in the monday release you will also be able to use the ] button (handy for mapping your joystick).

Also, ARS in 40 lines and VS hasup/down inverted. This should be changed so that people can do zangi moves with the same muscle memory as TGM games. I'm surprised other ARS players haven't mentioned this yet.You have a point there, it's quite illogical that in VS mode it's inverted... Going to change that in mondays release. The rest of the players ok with that?

[jujube]

It would be nice if there were a way to start a new game without taking your hands off the controls to the mouse. Maybe there is and I just don't know about it? Anyhow, it's a mild annoyance on keyboard but with an arcade stick it's more troublesome.From IRC:

In the game-over overlay (where you must choose between leave game or next round)
C+Right for next round or C+Left for leave game
it might be good if you could use left/right keys (whichever keys you bound to left/right in the game controls tab) to highlight "leave game" or "next round", then hitting a rotation key would select it. then you could leave your fingers on the game keys, and joystick players wouldn't have to go to the keyboard to restart.

[Deniax]

8.2.1-Build20081027-1580 has now been installed


New features

- Inverted up/down controls for ARS. So down is sonic drop and up is hard lock.
- "DAS does not charge during ARE" for Marathon 2 ( TAP Master ) implemented
- Leaderboard for Marathon 1 ( TGM1 ) now shows the score in stead of the time

Bug fixes

- Problem solved that sometimes after a game, the game would freeze and the server should be restarted
- Some snooping bugs fixed
- Problem solved where sometimes a soundeffect would keep on playing, even if you quit the game
- Removed firm and hard drop from ARS & SRS in Marathon 1 ( TGM1 )

[Kitaru]

- Inverted up/down controls for ARS. So down is sonic drop and up is hard lock.
Noooooooo...
- "DAS does not charge during ARE" for Marathon 2 ( TAP Master ) implemented
What? What is this about? Do you mean Line Clear? Elaborate.
- Leaderboard for Marathon 1 ( TGM1 ) now shows the score in stead of the time
NOOOOOOOO! Hahaha.

First off, I'd prefer Up - Sonic, Down - Hard for all rotation systems. Can you offer customization options? It'd be really nice if people could just pick whatever they want. I can't use sonic drop if it is mapped to down.
Secondly, please _don't_ base the leaderboard solely on score. Abusing level stop is horrifically dumb. Completion->Grade->Mastering Time is the way things should be.

[Deniax]

First off, I'd prefer Up - Sonic, Down - Hard for all rotation systems. Can you offer customization options? It'd be really nice if people could just pick whatever they want. I can't use sonic drop if it is mapped to down.Yes, you will be able to do that in a later release. For now it's done because in ARS, down is also sonic drop , so it would be logical that in 40 lines, it's the same.
Secondly, please _don't_ base the leaderboard solely on score. Abusing level stop is horrifically dumb. Completion->Grade->Mastering Time is the way things should be.But this is for TGM 1 only. In TGM 1 , scoring is more important then time because score=grade. Or isn't it correct?

What? What is this about? Do you mean Line Clear? Elaborate.It's purely something for TAP Master (Marathon 2) that wasn't implemented.

Colour_Thief explained it to me how it worked

See screenshot: http://greed.gamepoint.net/das.png

The first 3 rows show you single frame change. These 3 frames don't charge DAS. Also, you can't lose DAS. Basically all input is ignored on these 3 frames

The 3 frames are:
- the frame a piece gets its white border (white border flash = total of 2 frames, but only on the first has this effect)
- the frame the level coutner increases
- the frame a piece enters the screen

During ARE, aside from these 3 frames you lose DAS by not pressing down left/right/up or down.

The bottom 2 rows are for line clears. This shows the first and last frames that have this effect.
So, it goes:

- Starting with the white border
- Up to and including the first frame where the stack falls

One important detail relating to all this...
During active time DAS is only reset by pressing a direction.

So in active time, if DAS is 0 or even positive like 16 etc, then pressing a direction will cause:
0 (reset), 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc (with the commas seperating the frames)
But in ARE, if you ignore the "bald spots" , pressing a direction won't reset things
so if DAS is 0 and you press right: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 etc (By bald spots I mean the picture I was referring to. DAS doesn't charge on those frames).

[mushroom]

I like that a clone author is finally paying such attention to detail.

[Deniax]

-

[Kitaru]

[many details!]
Ahhh, the bald spots. I thought you meant the entirety of ARE for a moment, but I knew that couldn't have possibly been right. I figured it was the Line Clear delay DAS freeze instead, rather than the ARE dead frames. It's cool that you're implementing things like this, I don't think any of the other clones have those minute details.

[jujube]

First off, I'd prefer Up - Sonic, Down - Hard for all rotation systems. Can you offer customization options? It'd be really nice if people could just pick whatever they want. I can't use sonic drop if it is mapped to down.
can't you remap sonic drop to whatever you want? or am i missing something. i thought that Deniax made it so your mapping assignments stayed the same across all modes (requested by ct), so you could map things however you wanted and it would always be the same.

[Kitaru]

First off, I'd prefer Up - Sonic, Down - Hard for all rotation systems. Can you offer customization options? It'd be really nice if people could just pick whatever they want. I can't use sonic drop if it is mapped to down.
can't you remap sonic drop to whatever you want? or am i missing something. i thought that Deniax made it so your mapping assignments stayed the same across all modes (requested by ct), so you could map things however you wanted and it would always be the same.Ahh, I thought there were still inconsistencies. It was really bothering me when that was the case. If things are consistent now, I'll just flip things now.

[Deniax]

Hi guys,

I've installed an extra version of Blockbox, based on OpenGL especially for the players who have frame rate / lag issues.
If you don't have lag issues, don't try it out and use the D3D one.

If the players who had frame rate / lag issues could click on the OpenGL one and tell me if that one plays much better, it would be appreciated! http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

[Red_Star]

Hey, I tried the to play the Open GL version and all I see is a paper with a red X on it in the top left corner. I presume that means it doesn't work for me. Anyone else try it?

My computer seems to fail at everything. Hopefully I can get a new one so I don't have so many issues. Sorry Deniax for my computer working so poorly.

[jujube]

i tried and it worked, but there was an awful lot of lag. i think i'll stick with the D3D version, which rarely gave me any problems, and the problems i did have were very minor.

[Blink]

i tried and it worked, but there was an awful lot of lag. i think i'll stick with the D3D version, which rarely gave me any problems, and the problems i did have were very minor.


yep same here, it lags like crazy and i have a fast computer too.

[Burbruee]

I actually tried it and it felt very quick and responsive, no problems at all. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif

[Deniax]

Version 8.2.3-Build20081030-1583 is now installed

New features

- TGM+ (Is called Marathon 2.5) (with grade support!)
- In the end screen, you can select "leave game" or "next round" using the left/right buttons and select it with a rotation key. This way you don't have to take you hands off the keyboard

Bug fixes

- Selecting ARS & 8 way control won't drop 4 pieces at once when you press down

[XeaL]

just wondering how to access this. I read like the first 4 pages and i got a link to that german site but i can't seem to play blockbox. O.o unless its still beta then nvm lol. screenies look mad. development is running good http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif

[DIGITAL]

Yeah, it's in private beta right now but you can try PMing deniax. He'll be too nice to pass you up. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

[Deniax]

Marathon 1 (TGM) , Marathon 2 (TAP Master) and Marathon 2.5 (TAP+) have been implemented and players have the choice to choose SRS (which normally isn't possible), I've got a question concerning pressing & holding soft drop behaviour.

For ARS:
Level 500-900: All pieces will spawn on the stack (due to 20G) and lock instantly (this means that if I keep pressing soft drop, the next piece that spawns will not have lock delay.

How should this behaviour be in SRS ?

Currently in Blockbox SRS will behave the same as ARS from 500-900 in Marathon, 2 and 2.5

[Kitaru]

Any action that would incite a lock that is held during entry/clear delay should be executed on the first frame of active time, provided that some sort of locking safety flag isn't set. Soft drop normally lock in SRS, so the accurate behavior would be to execute hard drops held during entry delay on the first frame of active time as long as the hard drop key had been released after the last drop.

Ex: Press Up, piece hard drops, release Up, hold Up, active time starts, piece locks.

[Deniax]

Version 8.2.3-Build20081031-1584

New features

- In a multiplayer, when the end results are shown, "xx wins" is renamed to "xx winstreak". At the bottom you will see: "xx wins" <-- This shows the total number of wins in the current gamesession. Is handy for playing, for example, "first to win 15 games".

- In a multiplayer game, when you die (or win), it now shows your average TPM.
Also, when you are dead or snooping and other players are playing, you see the average TPM of the players still playing

[deepdorp]

hmm, i've tried the game several times only to have my computer crash at some time on each try. I'm playing with a gamepad through joy2key. i do have the latest java(6update10). i really don't know what else to report. another totally unrelated java-based program i used to use would often crash my pc in the same way which leads me to think it is a java problem. any other ideas?

[Deniax]

If another java program also crashed , it's maybe something on your pc which causes trouble. Which browser are you using? I recommend using FireFox, if you already don't use it.

Its not a joy2key issue as more Blockbox players are using it

[deepdorp]

yeah, i'm using firefox already. i just tried uninstalling all previous java updates, etc. and freshly installing the newest, but still no luck.

[jujube]

For ARS:
Level 500-900: All pieces will spawn on the stack (due to 20G) and lock instantly (this means that if I keep pressing soft drop, the next piece that spawns will not have lock delay.

How should this behaviour be in SRS ?
Any action that would incite a lock that is held during entry/clear delay should be executed on the first frame of active time, provided that some sort of locking safety flag isn't set. Soft drop normally lock in SRS, so the accurate behavior would be to execute hard drops held during entry delay on the first frame of active time as long as the hard drop key had been released after the last drop.

Ex: Press Up, piece hard drops, release Up, hold Up, active time starts, piece locks.
i did some testing on TDS, Tetris Zone, and Tetris Online. all 3 games allow soft drop to carry over from one piece to the next, which can be seen by holding down soft drop when playing in sub-20G. however, you can only lock a piece with soft drop in TDS, and it has to be pressed after the piece lands. so if you're playing 20G in TZ or TOJ, the soft drop key might as well be unassigned because it does absolutely nothing.

i personally prefer the TDS approach, because i think it's optimal for using a gamepad. if you're soft dropping a piece and you want to lock it, it's faster to release down and press it again than to release down and move your thumb to press up. if you're playing on a keyboard, it's actually probably faster to soft drop with one key and lock with another, assuming your fingers are covering both keys. still, i don't see the harm in allowing TDS-like handling of soft drop, which really can't hurt anybody, and it would allow gamepad players to lock a bit faster after soft dropping.

TDS doesn't handle 20G any differently from sub-20G as far as soft drop behavior is concerned. because it only locks if you press it after the piece has landed, if you hold it down then only the lock delay for the first piece will be canceled. so it works the same way Kitaru described hard drop in 20G. in fact, with SRS i think soft and hard drop can have specific rules which don't need to change when the gravity changes. their behaviors are consistent from 0G to 20G. the same "repress" protection that prevents double-hard-drops and lock-on-land soft drops also prevents double-locks.

edit: "however, you can only lock a piece with soft drop in TDS"
reworded: of the 3 games i tested, only TDS lets you lock with soft drop (hard drop locks too).

[Zaphod77]

hard drop, soft drop, and firm drop rules.

ARS: firm drop always drops, never locks, no protection. soft drop always locks, unless gravity is greater than 1g, and down has not been released since the last piece locked. Hard drop, if it existed, would probably lock when held, but would have protection.
SRS: hard drop locks on press only, and has NO protection. You cannot buffer a hard drop during line clear (tested on tetris ds) Soft drop only locks when PRESSED during lock delay, and has no protection (tested on tetris DS). Firm drop, if it existed, should follow ARS rules.

[muf]

hard drop, soft drop, and firm drop rules.

ARS: firm drop always drops, never locks, no protection. soft drop always locks, unless gravity is greater than 1g, and down has not been released since the last piece locked. Hard drop, if it existed, would probably lock when held, but would have protection.
SRS: hard drop locks on press only, and has NO protection. You cannot buffer a hard drop during line clear (tested on tetris ds) Soft drop only locks when PRESSED during lock delay, and has no protection (tested on tetris DS). Firm drop, if it existed, should follow ARS rules.
WRONG.

All three rotation systems: lock protection applies to the LOCKING action (soft drop for ARS, hard drop for SRS)
TAP-ARS, Master mode: No lock protection until level 900
TAP-ARS, Death mode: Lock protection, always
Ti-ARS: Lock protection, always
Ti-World: Lock protection, always

Clarification regarding Ti-World: holding UP (hard drop) during ARE will cause lock protection to engage. The next spawning piece will not lock.

Please, get the facts straight, it's confusing enough without people spreading misinformation. Also, DS-World is not a rotation system Deniax is attempting to imitate, so testing on Tetris DS tells you nothing of significance for Blockbox.

[Zaphod77]

Well i dont' have a TI machine, so I was going by everything i had available to me.

I suspected that TI might have implemented srs differently, and would allow a single lock by pressing UP and holding during non-active time, but i figured that the guideline games outside of Japan were a greater authority on SRS, and they are all i have to go on.

SO while every other SRS game i've tested has it that way i described, it seems Arika handles SRS a bit differently. I know it's I kick priority order is different, as imy tests do not match jagos results.

[jujube]

Please, get the facts straight, it's confusing enough without people spreading misinformation. Also, DS-World is not a rotation system Deniax is attempting to imitate, so testing on Tetris DS tells you nothing of significance for Blockbox.
the thing is that Blockbox includes some modes that are nonexistent or very different in Ti, which doesn't make it a strict Ti clone. it's really up to Deniax to make it as close as he wants. we know that 8-way control isn't in Ti, but it helps some people to play faster in 40 lines and multiplayer. things like initial hard drop may allow for faster play too. maybe these things shouldn't exist in modes that emulate TGM modes, and if it were up to me, i wouldn't allow them there.

if Deniax wants some Ti specific information, he just has to ask. i'm sure by now he knows there are some big differences between tetris games, even between games that use variants of the same rotation system.

[muf]

I never said Blockbox is an exact Ti clone, and I never will (unless it does become an exact Ti clone, but I don't see that happening). I was merely stating that Deniax is modeling the rotation systems after TGM, TAP and Ti (and I know this because colour_thief, edo and I frequently receive questions regarding those games), and not any of the other guideline games.

[tepples]

i did some testing on TDS, Tetris Zone, and Tetris Online. all 3 games allow soft drop to carry over from one piece to the next, which can be seen by holding down soft drop when playing in sub-20G. however, you can only lock a piece with soft drop in TDS, and it has to be pressed after the piece lands. so if you're playing 20G in TZ or TOJ, the soft drop key might as well be unassigned because it does absolutely nothing.

i personally prefer the TDS approach, because i think it's optimal for using a gamepad.
Which is why I implemented essentially the TDS approach in Lockjaw: the first frame of soft drop always locks if the piece has landed; subsequent frames lock only if soft drop locking is turned on (e.g. for ARS simulation). In any case, soft drop doesn't carry over to the next piece unless ARE is longer than DAS (approximating the Master 900 criterion), giving the player time to let go.

if you're soft dropping a piece and you want to lock it, it's faster to release down and press it again than to release down and move your thumb to press up.
I guess that's why SRS is better than ARS on a gamepad in less than 1G. With ARS, you have to press up+down, which is a lot harder on a gamepad than on an arcade joystick.

I was merely stating that Deniax is modeling the rotation systems after TGM, TAP and Ti
And there's the point. Just because rotation system (entry orientations and Rotate Left and Rotate Right behavior) is conflated with lockdown (Up and Down behavior) in Arika's games doesn't mean it has to be everywhere.

[muf]

And there's the point. Just because rotation system (entry orientations and Rotate Left and Rotate Right behavior) is conflated with lockdown (Up and Down behavior) in Arika's games doesn't mean it has to be everywhere.
Well, as Ti was to my knowledge the first game to feature multiple rotation systems, I think its definition of them should be default. Note though that the term "Rotation system" is something first seen in Heboris; Ti simply calls them "rules". From what I can tell, Deniax is implementing different "rules" for each different game type, so that the modes feel familiar for players of those modes.

[tepples]

And there's the point. Just because rotation system (entry orientations and Rotate Left and Rotate Right behavior) is conflated with lockdown (Up and Down behavior) in Arika's games doesn't mean it has to be everywhere.
Well, as Ti was to my knowledge the first game to feature multiple rotation systems, I think its definition of them should be default.
Tetris Advance (J) (http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/../wiki/index.php/Minna_no_Soft_Series_3A_Tetris_Advance) (the one that looks like Tetris DS, not Tetris Worlds GBA which was released in North America) had an option for "Super Rotation System" on/off.

[DeHackEd]

I broke the game. (http://dhe.execulink.com/whatthechrist.png)

(For those of you who don't see it, consider my grade)

[Deniax]

Hopefully this week, I will be able to have implemented the new preview pieces background view shown below: (Don't pay attention to the colors of the pieces)

http://rage.gamepoint.net/background.png

[Deniax]

Im also adding background colors when you reach level 100, 200, etc

http://delusion.gamepoint.net/background_green.png
http://delusion.gamepoint.net/background_orangeyellow.png

[Deniax]

Ok, I 'm going to need your input guys, for the "level indicator" (single player only)
Which of the 4 designs you think will be the most playable ?

http://gluttony.gamepoint.net/choosebackground.jpg

[Rosti LFC]

Definitely not the 3rd one (counting left to right).
I'd say 2nd or 4th.

[PetitPrince]

2nd or 4th.

But I'd like to playtest them before making my final decision.

[Amnesia]

Ah !

2 and 4 as well..

[XeaL]

2nd and 4th



3rd one looks best aesthetically for the standard human, but it would get annoying for us elitist TC'ers.

[DIGITAL]

I personally prefer the fourth.

The 3rd's "bright" background color is just too glaring. For me, this makes it harder to concentrate "passively", or through peripheral vision, when playing fast.

The first and second's well borders are just a little distracting to me. Maybe it's the contrasting colors...?

[Deniax]

The background colors may be dropped; the colored portions shown in the 4 screenshots will still be used for a "flash" when changing levels.
I will experiment with example 2 and 4 to see what looks best for the flash. Maybe 4 is the best, otherwise if you are looking at the previews , the flash wont be as easy to see when you compare it to 2.

[Kasumi]

I like the fourth as well.

Edit: Hah. Ghosted

[Deniax]

Version 8.2.8-Build20081111-1623 is now installed

New features:

- When joining an custom game, all the settings chosen are shown in the game chat. Also making changes in custom will be shown in the game chat

Bug fixes: (Because of the first two, replays are broken again... Of course, when the game is out of beta, replays wont break anymore)

- ARE was 2 frames too short. Inserted an extra frame for level increment and one "extra/same" frame
- Gravity decimals now carry over
- When you've turned off next piece animations, the hold piece now also doesn't animate anymore
- Fixed scoring
- Marathon 1 is now fixed so you can't earn a GM in level 300 http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif
- Fixed a bug in snooping
- Pressing the < or > buttons in the highscorelist, did not always work. Now they work.

[Deniax]

Very ugly Version 8.2.8-Build20081112-1624 is now installed http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif

And I'm not happy with it, although the changes are cool:

- Preview pieces are TGM style
- You will see a flash when you reach level 100,200,300, etc (The flash is visible in the parts of "design 4" from my previous post)

Reason Im not happy is, see below: (Black is not always beautiful.Tomorrow I will change it back to the original color..)

http://greed.gamepoint.net/ugly.png

[DIGITAL]

May I ask what is wrong with the black? I think it looks really sleek.

And a little nitpicking from me:
The stats popup at the end of a game covers the timestats. Also, for the timestats, I think it would be good to have the total time beside the section time like in Texmaster.

[jujube]

lots of tetris games have a black field. it's easier on the eyes.

[Deniax]

Hmm, seem more people indeed like the black background... In that case, I will leave it like that. The only graphical changes that I will do are:

- Black background where the score, level, time is, will be changed because it now looks weird
- Grade box will be made a few pixels wider so the grade fits more nicely in it
- Result window at the end will be moved over the chat so the timestats are visible (as requested by Digital)

[Deniax]

Version 8.2.9-Build20081113-1625 has been installed.

Bug fixes:

- All modes are playable again, previous release broke some of the modes.
- When clearing 4 lines, you won't advance 6 levels anymore in all modes except Ti Master (Marathon 3) and Shirase (ExperTi)
- Now there is a level step at level 998
- Timers in all modes stop when reaching the credit roll
- When watching a replay, it won't show your name at the start as if you're the one playing

New features:

- Black background where the score, level, time is, has been changed so it will look better
- Grade box will be made a few pixels wider so the grade fits more nicely in it

[colour_thief]

Small feature request: VS mode has 0G but very short lock delay. If garbage rises so that a piece spawns on the stack, the game can end quite suddenly. Could there be more forgiving lock delay?

Also something painful is a situation like this:

............[][][][]
....................
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..


The I piece can't rotate in this situation because of 0G... Unless you firm drop first. It's very annoying. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif I'm not sure if it's accurate to TGM3 or not, but TGM3 doesn't have 0G. So I think this should kick up even if it goes against TGM3.

[Deniax]

both will be implemented in tomorrows release.
Thanks for the input

[Deniax]

Version 8.3.0-Build20081114-1628 is installed

Fixed bugs

- Fixed a bug where soft/hard/firm-drop was not registered when pressed during ARE
- Fixed a bug in Marathon 1 where a grade would change only after you made a line. (For example if you score 2000, you wont get grade 5. You need to clear one (or more lines) to get it)


New features

- Multiplayer now has gravity
- When you reach the top of the well in multiplayer, the locktime is more forgiving (set to 60 frames in stead of 30)
- In multiplayer, when you have chosen ARS as rotation, you can now rotate the I in the following situation: (It's not TGM behaviour, but for multiplayer, it's a nice feature)
............[][][][]
....................
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..


New statistics. Click on your or someone else's name and see the following stats:
Highest Grade MT: (Marathon grade)
Highest Grade MT2: (Marathon 2 grade)
Highest Grade MT2+: (Marathon 2+ grade)
Highest Grade MT3: (Marathon 3 grade)

[Deniax]

Version 8.3.0-Build20081125-1635 is installed

New features

- You now can view highscores+replays without the need to play a game. Just press Start, select the mode you want to view and press the Score button
- Game over overlay is now placed over the chat as requested by many (only problem now is you can't type in between rounds, this will be fixed)

Bug fixes

- Fixed some crashes
- Fixed some snooping bugs

Timeline

So, this is the timeline with new features I will make:

1) Chrome support (this week I hope)
2) Fast forward + rewind in replays
3) Ability to save and load singleplayer, multiplayer and teamgame replays
4) Team TGM3 Master (Think Doubles, but then you play together to reach level 999).
5) Other team features like Team 40 lines, etc
6) Doubles mode
7) Standalone game (no need to start a browser to play Blockbox)
8 ) Ability to add your own sounds
9) Post your ideas http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

[Blink]

opera support too to go with that chrome support, lol sorry deniax!

[Burbruee]

Yes, Opera support would be nice since it's my default browser.
Also an option to disable sounds. (can't find one at the moment)
Why? If I listen to music or radio at the same time then I don't want to hear blokkendoos sound effects. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[Deniax]

Also an option to disable sounds. (can't find one at the moment)
Why? If I listen to music or radio at the same time then I don't want to hear blokkendoos sound effects. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gifIt's already possible. See bottom right corner http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
Press the icon and you can turn off game sounds, lobby sounds, etc


http://delusion.gamepoint.net/Picture3.png

[Burbruee]

Also an option to disable sounds. (can't find one at the moment)
Why? If I listen to music or radio at the same time then I don't want to hear blokkendoos sound effects. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gifIt's already possible. See bottom right corner http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
Press the icon and you can turn off game sounds, lobby sounds, etc


http://delusion.gamepoint.net/Picture3.png
Oh, I've never looked down there. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

[muf]

Oh, I've never looked down there. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gifhttp://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_exclaim.gif

[kapat]

if this is ment for to be more online-ish and completeitive oriented.. ..

avatars?
easy server connect?
lobby sorta IRC style?
being able to choose the game in an easy menu
music options [on, off, techno, "oprea"?]

[Rosti LFC]

if this is ment for to be more online-ish and completeitive oriented.. ..

avatars?
easy server connect?
lobby sorta IRC style?
being able to choose the game in an easy menu
music options [on, off, techno, "oprea"?]

Pretty much all of those are already there, aside from music options.

[Deniax]

Version 8.3.6-Build20081128-1637 is now installed.

New features

- Exclusive & unique new mode: Marathon 3.5! I won't say too much about it yet, just try it, but watch the 10 second timer and try to get that GM grade! http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif
- When you complete a single player game, at the end of the game, you will see more statistics (even more to come)
- When you finish a game, the leaderboard will show the highscores for the rotation system you played with. Of course, you can view other rotation scheme scores.

Bug fixes

- Fixed more gamecrashes

[Ezzelin]

- In multiplayer, when you have chosen ARS as rotation, you can now rotate the I in the following situation: (It's not TGM behaviour, but for multiplayer, it's a nice feature)
............[][][][]
....................
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..
[][][][][][][][][]..


Is this for 0G only? I believe that was the situation that colour_thief was asking to change, since 0G wasn't TGM behavior anyway. I would think that if the player is playing normally it should act as much like TGM as possible, right?

I'm glad you're planning on making a standalone version. My internet has been laggy recently and it takes me a long time to get into the game through the browser. Were you still considering putting in splitscreen multiplayer for multiple players on the same computer? That would be a great feature to have for my projector setup at home.

[Deniax]

Is this for 0G only? I believe that was the situation that colour_thief was asking to change, since 0G wasn't TGM behavior anyway. I would think that if the player is playing normally it should act as much like TGM as possible, right?This is indeed only for Multiplayer rated games.I'm glad you're planning on making a standalone version. My internet has been laggy recently and it takes me a long time to get into the game through the browser. Were you still considering putting in splitscreen multiplayer for multiple players on the same computer? That would be a great feature to have for my projector setup at home.That can be done, although if will not be materialized anytime soon. First the game will launch (in ± 2 weeks), then Doubles & Teams mode will be finished, then in ± 2 months the standalone will come out and then we have to see what will come first. It's just what the most popular request is at that time.

[m:)]

this is looking really good! I'm looking forward to the launch.

[Ezzelin]

Is this for 0G only? I believe that was the situation that colour_thief was asking to change, since 0G wasn't TGM behavior anyway. I would think that if the player is playing normally it should act as much like TGM as possible, right?This is indeed only for Multiplayer rated games.
Well even in Multiplayer, I would think it should act like TGM if you're not in 0g mode, and that it could act like you've described if you're in 0g mode in either single or multiplayer. At least, that would make sense to me. I'd rather not have different kick behavior depending on whether I'm playing multiplayer or not. Changing stuff for 0g mode if fine, though, since it's not standard.

[Rosti LFC]

It's hardly a massive change anyway. It only makes a difference when you're in the top two lines of the field.

[Ezzelin]

It's hardly a massive change anyway. It only makes a difference when you're in the top two lines of the field.
Well, yeah, except that's the point where you would be winning against someone, and if the rules are different, you might not win compared to a real TGM machine.

[muf]

It's hardly a massive change anyway. It only makes a difference when you're in the top two lines of the field.
Well, yeah, except that's the point where you would be winning against someone, and if the rules are different, you might not win compared to a real TGM machine.
In TGM versus, you have gravity, which solves the rotation issue.

[Rosti LFC]

It's hardly a massive change anyway. It only makes a difference when you're in the top two lines of the field.
Well, yeah, except that's the point where you would be winning against someone, and if the rules are different, you might not win compared to a real TGM machine.
On a real TGM machine, one player wouldn't be using SRS.

[Ezzelin]

But turning off gravity and changing to SRS are options, right? If both players want to play a straightforward, normal gravity TGM-style game, then I think the rotations at the top of the field should act like they would in TGM.

[Rosti LFC]

But how many people want to do that?

What about all the players who just want to play with ARS and don't want to get screwed in the top section of the field because on TGM the ceiling is viewed as a wall.

It's really a tiny difference in gameplay. It's just removing what would otherwise me a very frustrating scenario.

[tepples]

What about all the players who just want to play with ARS and don't want to get screwed in the top section of the field because on TGM the ceiling is viewed as a wall.
That's true of Sega's Tetris. But TGM, like guideline games, has a vanish zone (http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/../wiki/index.php/Playfield#Vanish_zone).

[Ezzelin]

Well, then, perhaps it could be an option? This could make everyone happy; those who desire arcade accuracy, and those who want an easier time at the top of the screen.

[Zaphod77]

The issue is the i will not kick up unless it is touching ground below.

WIth 0g, the person needs to firm drop, then rotate. Soft drop will lock.

The change is minor enough that i don't think it's bad.

I think only in 0g, the kick should be allowed.

[Ezzelin]

I think only in 0g, the kick should be allowed.
Agreed. In 0g, the kick can be allowed.

[Rosti LFC]

I think the rating system should be changed.

Currently, as I understand it, it'll take an average of your opponents and will use that to calculate how many points you should receive. The problem for me is that the system doesn't really work how I'd think it should for anything other than 1 vs 1 matches.
If you win against a player rated at 1700 you'll get the same number of points as if you win against three players rated at 1700.
If you win against a player rated at 1700 you'll get more points than if you win against the same player and another at 1500, because the average is lowered.

I think it should calculate the scores in the same way, but for each player individually. The total points you receive after the game would then be the sum of the players who you beat minus the sum of the players who beat you.

[paul]

don't let it die!

looking forward to mac/pc versions!

[Burbruee]

I hope that in the future, there will be a software update to fix the broken Java i OS X. Or that Deniax will find a way around it. As it is now no browser can even detect that a Java installation exists.
It's a shame really, but I don't think there is much that can be done unless Apple fixes it. Their Java version has never been any good.

[Deniax]

To make the game work in Java 6 on OSX, an standalone applet will be needed as the problem of Java 6 & OSX has to do with the absense of 64bit browsers.
But this won't happen this or next month I'm afraid.
Launching the English version of the game and teamplay has to be finished first.

[muf]

To make the game work in Java 6 on OSX, an standalone applet will be needed as the problem of Java 6 & OSX has to do with the absense of 64bit browsers.
OS X only operates in long mode, not hybrid mode?

[Deniax]

To make the game work in Java 6 on OSX, an standalone applet will be needed as the problem of Java 6 & OSX has to do with the absense of 64bit browsers.
OS X only operates in long mode, not hybrid mode?Leopard isn't a real 64bit OS. The kernel operates in hybrid with a mix of 32bit and 64bit. When having 64bit hardware, the 32bit kernel just goes into a long mode compatibility mode.

[muf]

To make the game work in Java 6 on OSX, an standalone applet will be needed as the problem of Java 6 & OSX has to do with the absense of 64bit browsers.
OS X only operates in long mode, not hybrid mode?Leopard isn't a real 64bit OS. The kernel operates in hybrid with a mix of 32bit and 64bit. When having 64bit hardware, the 32bit kernel just goes into a long mode compatibility mode.
Then why wouldn't Java work? On Windows systems, you solve this simply by installing a 32-bit flavour of Java along with a 32-bit browser and everything works. How have Apple managed to make this construction not work?

[Deniax]

Heh, the wonderfull world of Apple http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
They've released a 64bit only version of Java6 which can't work with a 32bit browser. Apple tells you that if you want to use Java 6 in a browser, you need a 64bit browser, which of course isn't available for OS X...

[paul]

Heh, the wonderfull world of Apple http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
They've released a 64bit only version of Java6 which can't work with a 32bit browser. Apple tells you that if you want to use Java 6 in a browser, you need a 64bit browser, which of course isn't available for OS X...

psh!

EVERYONE knows about safari 4 (mac and windows) which is 64 bit.
i think there is a developer preview from august 22nd and one from june.

[Deniax]

Heh, the wonderfull world of Apple http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
They've released a 64bit only version of Java6 which can't work with a 32bit browser. Apple tells you that if you want to use Java 6 in a browser, you need a 64bit browser, which of course isn't available for OS X...

psh!

EVERYONE knows about safari 4 (mac and windows) which is 64 bit.
i think there is a developer preview from august 22nd and one from june.It's not 64 bit. For example, the latest development release, version 4.0 (5528.1) doesn't even have the 32bit and 64bit switch anymore. They seemed to remove it and it's 32bit only again...

[paul]

Heh, the wonderfull world of Apple http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
They've released a 64bit only version of Java6 which can't work with a 32bit browser. Apple tells you that if you want to use Java 6 in a browser, you need a 64bit browser, which of course isn't available for OS X...

psh!

EVERYONE knows about safari 4 (mac and windows) which is 64 bit.
i think there is a developer preview from august 22nd and one from june.It's not 64 bit. For example, the latest development release, version 4.0 (5528.1) doesn't even have the 32bit and 64bit switch anymore. They seemed to remove it and it's 32bit only again...

why would they remove this switch...
i highly doubt it will be 32 bit in 10.6 which is about 6 months away. they have to be aware of the java 6 issue too.

[Deniax]

It indeed won't be 32bit. In the latest build of Snow Leopard, Java SE 6 is used for all Java applications and applets, including the in Safari 4 (which is also 64 bit)
But a standalone version of Blockbox will be out before that time, as it's more convenient if you want to play a game.

[paul]

It indeed won't be 32bit. In the latest build of Snow Leopard, Java SE 6 is used for all Java applications and applets, including the in Safari 4 (which is also 64 bit)
But a standalone version of Blockbox will be out before that time, as it's more convenient if you want to play a game.

if u say so... http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif

[paul]

is it still in development?

[m:)]

is it still in development?

it's online, but no love for OS X

http://www.spelpunt.nl/ (http://www.spelpunt.nl/default.htm)

[Burbruee]

is it still in development?

it's online, but no love for OS X

http://www.spelpunt.nl/ (http://www.spelpunt.nl/default.htm)
Or Opera.

[caffeine]

Oh boo hoo. Somebody call the waaaaambulance. Use another browser for pete's sake. This game's awesome.

[Reveillark]

What times do people here usually play at? I haven't found a good match in ages http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif

[DIGITAL]

is it still in development?
As far as I know, deniax is back in action. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[DIGITAL]

is it still in development?
As far as I know, deniax is back in action. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

What times do people here usually play at? I haven't found a good match in ages http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif
I randomly play whenever I get the urge. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_confused.gif 3 in the morning PST? No problem. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif

[Corrosive]

I am a big fan of Blockbox, fantastic job. Best multiplayer tetris yet.

[Corrosive]

Who is this digital guy? I seen him play and That guy is like the Enkidu to Dont_Blink.

[DIGITAL]

Me? Oh I'm not really anybody yet. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif I've only got 3 years behind me.

And rest assured, Dont_Blink kicks my ass badly.

[Reveillark]

Well, that was quite the experience :l

I've got so much to learn from you guys.

[DIGITAL]

Well, that was quite the experience :l

I've got so much to learn from you guys.
More like we've all got so much to learn from blink. Am I right? http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_exclaim.gif

[Reveillark]

Heh, very true http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

[milkolate]

Is Blockbox and Blockendoos the same?

[KevinDDR]

Yes.

[Rosti LFC]

If there are some more good players out there I might break my vow to try and give up keyboard Tetris for lent to play some Blokkendoos (acceptable, because I only made the vow to try and play Texmaster exclusively with my stick). I feel bad joining games where the players are closely-matched beginners and just annihilating them, but it's hard to find other games.

Also, if it's not already been done, I'd ask that the rating system please be adjusted/fixed for games involving more than two players. I think the current way it calculates increases and decreases in rating is really irritating and it especially doesn't reflect how multiplayer games actually work.

[caffeine]

9) Post your ideas :)
You know where it says your grades, TPM, and time played? Instead of straight average TPM, what about a rolling TPM? Right now it's very misleading because of single player modes. For example, it says blink's TPM is under 105, yet we see him consistently finishing games in the 170s. =b By rolling TPM, I mean you could have the average of the last twenty games played. This should be pretty accurate. The added benefit is that if a player starts playing blockbox and sucks big time, his early days won't have a permanent negative effect on his TPM.

I'd ask that the rating system please be adjusted/fixed for games involving more than two players.
What do you recommend?

[DIGITAL]

9) Post your ideas http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
You know where it says your grades, TPM, and time played? Instead of straight average TPM, what about a rolling TPM? Right now it's very misleading because of single player modes. For example, it says blink's TPM is under 105, yet we see him consistently finishing games in the 170s. =b By rolling TPM, I mean you could have the average of the last twenty games played. This should be pretty accurate. The added benefit is that if a player starts playing blockbox and sucks big time, his early days won't have a permanent negative effect on his TPM.
Yeah, that was bothering me a bit as well. Not because it underestimates my ability (that can be a great surprise for the opponent!) but because the stat becomes irrelevant. Oh, and a rolling TPM would also more accurately reflect a drop in TPM if your ability took a dip for whatever reason.

[Rosti LFC]

I'd ask that the rating system please be adjusted/fixed for games involving more than two players.
What do you recommend?

Currently it works thusly: rating change = (change vs average of players beaten) - (change vs average of players beaten by).

This is fine for two-player, but I just don't think it works at all for higher numbers of players. If I'm playing against a 2000-rated player, and then a 1000 player joins, I'll get significantly less points per win, despite the games actually being at least the same difficulty. I still have to beat the 2000 player and now the 1000 player as well, and yet I get less points, and I just don't see how that really justifies itself.

It'd be fixed quite easily if the system didn't take an average anywhere, and just calculated the rating change against each player and then added up all the points gained for the wins minus the points lost for the losses.
I just think it makes sense that if you're playing more people you should get more points. Certainly not less.

[Ezzelin]

If there are some more good players out there I might break my vow to try and give up keyboard Tetris for lent to play some Blokkendoos
Just get Joytokey. It works fine for using joysticks with Blokkendoos.

[Rosti LFC]

If there are some more good players out there I might break my vow to try and give up keyboard Tetris for lent to play some Blokkendoos
Just get Joytokey. It works fine for using joysticks with Blokkendoos.

Yeah, but I'm never going to use a joystick for 0G versus Tetris with hard-drop enabled.

[tepples]

If you can't play low-G world rule on a stick, then try using the controller on the left:
http://pinocchio.jk0.org/lj/N64_and_DS_pads.jpg
(ignore the DS)

[Rosti LFC]

Less can't, more why would I when a keyboard is massively faster.

Couldn't you just use the D-Pad on the N64? That'd make it pretty much the same as the DS.

[muf]

Less can't, more why would I when a keyboard is massively faster.

Couldn't you just use the D-Pad on the N64? That'd make it pretty much the same as the DS.
Afaik, the N64 D-pad is worse than the DS Lite D-pad, which is surprisingly good as far as D-pads go (and a lot better than the Wii D-pad, for instance).

[caffeine]

To make the game fairer, all players should receive the same string of garbage. For example, if Player A's first garbage row has a hole in column 2 and his next in column 6, so should player B's. I drew a picture to illustrate how uneven garbage can be sometimes.

http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/../garbage.jpg

One player gets really evil garbage while the next player gets very easy garbage. Player B will have a large advantage in this game.

[DIGITAL]

Yeah, as caff pointed out, it's not just consecutive hole alignment that is the problem. Even if the hole was to change every time, something like Player A's garbage pattern can still occur as long as the possibility is there.

You can go to extremes and design a complicated garbage system to eliminate this type of pattern. However, that's just diluting the problem and not really solving it. If that disadvantageous pattern is eliminated, a new one will take its place as the most disadvantageous pattern. Plus, you would end up reducing the possibilities of the garbage to a really small (possibly arbitrary) pool.

You can even apply a randomizer system like 7-bag or history to this smart garbage system. However, the unfairness is still present in the short/long term. The most elegant and easiest solution is to just have both players get the same garbage pattern.

[tepples]

The most elegant and easiest solution is to just have both players get the same garbage pattern.
Which shouldn't be difficult in an object-oriented system. You're using Java, not something restricted like assembly or C on a sub-20-MHz CPU. So you can make your garbage generators implement something like this, where each player gets the same seed value:
interface GarbageGenerator(w) {
  /**
   * Reinitializes the generator.
   * @param width the width of the playfield
   * @param difficulty a number from 1 to 100, interpreted
   * @param seed a number identifying which sequence is produced
   */
  void reset(int width, int difficulty, int seed);

  /**
   * Makes the pattern for one row of garbage.
   *
   * Each bit represents one cell (1 for filled, 0 for hole).
   * The least significant bit represents the rightmost cell.
   * @return bitfield of which cells are filled
   */
  int makeRow();
}

(Because this interface uses a bitfield, not a hole X position, it's flexible enough to represent the TGM+ pattern, which has multiple holes per row, or even the Shirase pattern, which copies the playfield's bottom row.)

But if you give both players the same seed, players can send garbage, screen-peek, and then prepare their stacks accordingly. I used to do this all the time on Tetris in Tetris & Dr. Mario.

[jujube]

But if you give both players the same seed, players can send garbage, screen-peek, and then prepare their stacks accordingly. I used to do this all the time on Tetris in Tetris & Dr. Mario.
what if both players received the same randomness but in different patterns? the garbage hole changes would be in sync but the holes would appear random columns. it would only allow for a small advantage from screen peeking, but one could argue the player who strikes first deserves that insight.

i suppose those 1 column shifts in garbage (Player A in caffeine's post) could be copied to the other player's field, but a new hole could appear either 1 column left or right of the previous hole, instead of following the exact pattern the other player received. example:

http://i41.tinypic.com/2j2xmxy.png

[Rosti LFC]

But if you give both players the same seed, players can send garbage, screen-peek, and then prepare their stacks accordingly. I used to do this all the time on Tetris in Tetris & Dr. Mario.
what if both players received the same randomness but in different patterns? the garbage hole changes would be in sync but the holes would appear random columns. it would only allow for a small advantage from screen peeking, but one could argue the player who strikes first deserves that insight.


But the trilling thing that caffeine described works entirely on position of the holes to generate unfairness, rather than how often the hole changes.

I'd love to see someone actually take the time to get an advantage from looking at their opponents garbage during a fast competitive match. I think at the sorts of levels where people would think to take an advantage like that, the gameplay is too fast for it to be worth the delay you require to shift your attention. Dr Mario is a damn slow game as it is, let alone when compared to 150+ tpm Tetris.

[paul]

will there be another version of blockbox?

[DIGITAL]

will there be another version of blockbox?
Yeah, of course. Deniax has some new modes up his sleeve (in testing). And I'm sure he has a long todo list he's working on.

[jujube]

But if you give both players the same seed, players can send garbage, screen-peek, and then prepare their stacks accordingly. I used to do this all the time on Tetris in Tetris & Dr. Mario.
what if both players received the same randomness but in different patterns? the garbage hole changes would be in sync but the holes would appear random columns. it would only allow for a small advantage from screen peeking, but one could argue the player who strikes first deserves that insight.


But the trilling thing that caffeine described works entirely on position of the holes to generate unfairness, rather than how often the hole changes.

I'd love to see someone actually take the time to get an advantage from looking at their opponents garbage during a fast competitive match. I think at the sorts of levels where people would think to take an advantage like that, the gameplay is too fast for it to be worth the delay you require to shift your attention. Dr Mario is a damn slow game as it is, let alone when compared to 150+ tpm Tetris.

i also mentioned a possible solution where both players receive garbage holes in adjacent columns, but not necessarily in the same pattern. it wouldn't amount to the exact same difficulty for both players but it would be close. caffeine's situation for player A is pretty unlikely, but i understand it's just an example.

you probably wouldn't have time to watch for every hole the other player receives, but you'd most likely notice if they had a deep garbage hole, and you'd know not to stack over that column in your well if you were going to get the same pattern.

[Zaphod77]

Hebo mini netplay did the same stunt, and screen peeking is really quick and easy to do. I do think it would be a problem, but I don't have a better idea.

[caffeine]

I played a fair amount of Heboris and couldn't discern a way to take advantage of "peeking." Once you're in the flow, I just kind of play and do the best I can. I don't know, but it even sounds funny to me when someone says you can have an advantage of "peeking." I mean, hello, you're already behind pace if you can see what garbage you're going to get.

Also, players get the same garbage in Tetris Mobile.

[DIGITAL]

I don't think screen peeking is too much of an issue either. If you were playing fast like Rosti mentioned, or rather, forced to play fast, you can't really peek efficiently anyway. Like jujube mentioned, you'd only be able to get a gist of the garbage, but that becomes less of a problem as the hole alignment gets increasingly random. Anyhow, I agree that the faster player should have that privilege. They'd have to be a great deal faster anyway to make any good use out of it, in which case they'd have such a big advantage that it wouldn't really make any noticeable difference if they had just played normally.

[colour_thief]

I don't know, but it even sounds funny to me when someone says you can have an advantage of "peeking." I mean, hello, you're already behind pace if you can see what garbage you're going to get.

I disagree, peeking means you've given your opponent more garbage then he's given you, meaning you're already in the lead. And it does give you a significant advantage. I went into this when I wrote about the tetris tournament I won. I had a lot going for me, but I feel peeking really gave me an edge. Especially because the garbage distribution favoured repeats. I'd send a quick double to learn where to make my tetris hole and it was quite effective.

On the other hand, peeking the piece sequence is completely useless, I'll agree.

[Rosti LFC]

But wasn't that Gameboy Tetris? If the gameplay is slow then by all means peeking can help significantly, but as long as the speed of the players isn't above that which the gameplay can manage, I don't think it's an advantage because it forces the player to lose time.

[colour_thief]

No that was the finals. I'm talking about the quarter finals where we played a made-for-tv tetris.

[Zaphod77]

WHen using TDS style garbage, peeking can give an insane advantage, and is definitely worth it if the garbage is parallelized.

You send your double, then immediately build your tetris hole where you are going to get attacked, and it only takes the blink of an eye. That is where the tetromino tennis effect comes into play. THe guy send you a tetris, and you send it right back, followed by another of your own, and his hole isn't lined up, so he needs to downstack to get rid of your attack, and in the meantime you are building another tetris or whip out the t-spins.

[Ezzelin]

I agree that it would be fair to have identical garbage, or at least identical changes in garbage columns. I've always wondered how a versus Tetris game would work if the column where garbage would appear would always be marked at the bottom of the well.

[DIGITAL]

I've always wondered how a versus Tetris game would work if the column where garbage would appear would always be marked at the bottom of the well.
Oh, that's a really interesting idea. So it's determined even before you clear a line right?