ROFL vertical I has no wall kicks

[Ghett0]

Think of the I rotations

-------------0000

[][][][][][][][][]

[][][][][][][][][]

[][][][][][][][][]

[][][][][][][][][]


No rotation... but it should wall kick and fall into the side.

[kotetsu213]

Heeeeeeee-larious!

[Ghett0]

Oops, something isn't right.

[caffeine]

i don't get it. there's no frame of reference.

[Billmaan]

Don't you mean it should floor kick and leave you with

        I
        I
        I
        I
*********
*********
*********
********* ?


(...and it does, in nearly every rotation system except for (non-TI) ARS.)

[Ghett0]

Not floor kick. Like this;


         I
         I
*********X
*********X
**********
**********
**********



Then wall kick into the hole.

[DIGITAL]

A floor kick is essentially another "wall" kick system. So in essence, it does wall kick if floor kicks are allowed. Anyhow, the obstruction is on the floor so it would make more sense to shift on the vertical axis than on the horizontal axis.

[Ghett0]

A floor kick is essentially another "wall" kick system. So in essence, it does wall kick if floor kicks are allowed. Anyhow, the obstruction is on the floor so it would make more sense to shift on the vertical axis than on the horizontal axis.


Shouldn't ARS just wall kick to allow more versatility?

[DIGITAL]

There's elegant versatility and then there is inelegant versatility. The terms elegant and inelegant are very subjective. Keep in mind I'm not saying ARS is perfectly elegant. However consider a situation where you push something in one direction and it ends up moving in another direction. Something about that doesn't feel intuitive to me. The situation with the I tetromino is similar. The obstruction is pushing the piece from the bottom. Would it make sense for the piece to move left or right as a result?

[Ghett0]

No. But seeing as ARS doesn't allow floorkicks...

[DIGITAL]

It doesn't allow the floor kick because that's how the gameplay was intended. If any versatility is needed, the inclusion of a floor kick would be prioritized over a wall kick as seen in Ti.

[Ghett0]

[quote] as seen in TI[/code]


That's my point. It makes TA-ARS I rotations very annoying. They should have just substituted floor kicks with wall kicks.

[kotetsu213]

What?


I doesn't have wallkicks in TA.

[DIGITAL]

Perhaps I should have been more clear. When I say that the inclusion of a floor kick for the I is prioritized over a wall kick, I did not mean that it'll try a floor kick and then try a wall kick. I meant that the addition of a floor kick into the game is considered first.

[Zaphod77]

The lack of kicks for the I piece in TGM and TAP was intentional, and was done to hamper mobility and increase challenge.


They changed that in TI, to make the I piece always "good".


Truth be told, the floorkick is the proper move, not a wallkick. The floorkick enables more possibilities.


Example



IIII
XX
XX
XXXX
XXXX


With floorkick

  I
  I
  I
  I
XX
XX
XXXX
XXXX


and DAS into side column.

With wallkick

   I
   I
XXI
XXI
XXXX
XXXX

and piece CANNOT REACH SIDE.

[mushroom]

I can has wallkick?

[caffeine]

"The lack of kicks for the I piece in TGM and TAP was intentional, and was done to hamper mobility and increase challenge.


They changed that in TI, to make the I piece always "good". "


how come they didn't want to make it "good" in tgm and tap but they did in tgm3? they didn't want tgm3 as challenging and restricted in terms of mobility? why do you think they would do something like that?

[Needle]

I can has wallkick?


Great, now we need LOLtetrominoes. Endless FAIL and DO NOT WANT possibilities.

[colour_thief]

how come they didn't want to make it "good" in tgm and tap but they did in tgm3? they didn't want tgm3 as challenging and restricted in terms of mobility? why do you think they would do something like that?


They made Ti even more challenging, and relaxed the I and T rotations to make up for this. So the player is less challenged in some ways and more challenged in others. It's a change in focus rather than a matter of "better" or "worse" rotation. Though, it's probably also a one way trip for the series... You can't take away stuff like the extra previews, hold, and the floorkicks at this point without serious backlash from players.

[tepples]

how come they didn't want to make it "good" in tgm and tap but they did in tgm3? they didn't want tgm3 as challenging and restricted in terms of mobility? why do you think they would do something like that?

Because Mr. Rogers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henk_Rogers) said so.

[caffeine]

but if mr. rogers said so, then wouldn't ars be out of the picture entirely?

[herc]

i wouldnt say they did add I kicks because they were forced to do so.


i think its a pragmatic gameplay tuning that enhances gameplay experience for beginners.


for me - a total noob - missing I kicks were the worst thing in tgm and tap, that frequently killed me.


so i appreciate the additon of I kicks and dont get affected (yet) by the increased game speeds later in master mode (or the INSANE speed in the tgm3 death mode - thats totally unplayable for me)


p.s. just finished my first 500 in heboris ti-ars 20g G1 http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

[lee n]

i think its a pragmatic gameplay tuning that enhances gameplay experience for beginners.

Would you say that the TGM games caters towards beginners? On the contrary I'd say.

[tepples]

i think its a pragmatic gameplay tuning that enhances gameplay experience for beginners.
Would you say that the TGM games caters towards beginners? On the contrary I'd say.

What's the mode that ends at 300?

[lee n]

What's the mode that ends at 300?

EASY ends at 200.. but I'd argue that that mode can be fairly complicated aswell.


Take a look at MOM's videos for example.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElSDouKw_7s


Also, I don't buy the argument that they added kicks to make the game easier when in fact they made the game harder overall.

[Zaphod77]

They most likely added 3 piece preview and hold because Mr. Rogers said so.


They then increased overall difficulty to make up for that, by hugely ramping up the speed curve.


THEN they most likely added in the new kicks to make the game more fair. WIth the brutal speed increase at the higher levels, the new kicks are all but REQUIRED to survive.


Beginner mode (Tamaya trial) was put in to give a mode that beginner players can actually complete, but still allow for expert competition (combo attack). I can, of course, consistently clear beginner modes, including the credit roll in Heboris.


The TGM games are not tune dfor beginners. They are tuned for expert play, while still remaining accessible to beginners (at least the newer ones).

[Rosti LFC]

Would you say that the TGM games caters towards beginners? On the contrary I'd say.

It's an arcade game. It'll never cater towards beginners, because it wouldn't make enough money.